ok, just watched the video for a fifth time and how about this as a reason for a DQ. She received help getting across the finish line. if her chip didn't activate til 18:35, she had had already been picked up and walked across the line by the official at that point. While it would suck, that is a fair DQ. The big question is did she fall down short of the line and receive assistance before her chip tripped the pad. if so, as much as I hate to say it, it's a good DQ.
My timing was off a little on the video--the arm swing is at about 1:45 in the video--it clearly shoves Saugus to the side. Then, when that doesn't put off the pursuit, she speeds up and lines up another collision (on a bad line to the finish, as previously noted) with Saugus at about 1:47 or 1:48. After the initial elbow, it was clearly Saugus who was taking the direct line to the finish, not Simi. You can see by the line that Saugus takes after the second contact that she has been moved far to her right of the line she intended as she takes a clear leftward direction.
I would agree, though, that the only way Barr ends up 10 seconds behind Saugus is if she fell short of the finish line and was then helped up and across the finish line (as the video seems to indicate).
If the rest of you want to say all that contact at the finish is SOP, that's your prerogative (and maybe it is where you live and race), but I find it quite excessive. I admit, though, I'd prefer to see video from the from and a little closer.
I keep replaying the video, but can't see anything from this angle that looks like either runner made contact with the other. The fact that Barr fell does not prove contact. I need video from the front, and closer up, to have an opinion on this.
If you know Woodward, and a front view would help those that don't, every one of those girls needs a lesson on tangents as the tangent is to the left of where they are running. So when each athlete, Saugus and Simi is running a bad line - but a line nonetheless - it's tough to call a dq saying one was more at fault. I actually had an athlete dqd for doing what the Saugus runner did - at an invite - when she pushed into the Simi girl right at the line. If you want to volunteer what state you live in and if there are videos of your state meet, I would bet I could worse in the top 100 or so runners than that. As a longtime official, this is a bad DQ for contact but probably a fair DQ for illegal assistance. Again, i wonder what the DQ sheet says. I'd love to see a copy. A little irony here as I don't know about yesterday but at CIS SS, Saugus #5 I believe had an illegal uniform but it wasn't called.
Disinterested party, actually.
I was spectating roughly 200 meters from the finish. There was absolutely no battle until the very end which you can CLEARLY SEE IN THE VIDEO. I assumed it was the over-reaction of a race official until this video surfaced. Now, having watched it carefully multiple times I have come to my conclusion.
The Saugus runner clearly had the intent of cutting Barr off. If that were not the case, she could have run to the left of Barr where she would have avoided the ladder. Dirty running on her part.
As far as your own race experience and being cut off? Irrelevant. Does Barr shift to the right (or left for that matter) at all? No. Does the Saugus girl quickly cut left right before Barr goes down? Yes.
It seems as though a combination of a race official proving his/her worth by making such an important call and the Saugus girl lacking confidence in the rest of her team thus sacrificing the integrity of her own race has resulted in Barr becoming the scapegoat for one of the biggest upsets in high school cross country.
Its a shame so many of you feel so invested in this event that you cannot throw away your bias and see the reality of what happened. Whichever official made the call must be regretting the decision now that the video shows just what happened.
MV wrote:
Disinterested party, actually.
I was spectating roughly 200 meters from the finish. There was absolutely no battle until the very end which you can CLEARLY SEE IN THE VIDEO. I assumed it was the over-reaction of a race official until this video surfaced. Now, having watched it carefully multiple times I have come to my conclusion.
The Saugus runner clearly had the intent of cutting Barr off. If that were not the case, she could have run to the left of Barr where she would have avoided the ladder. Dirty running on her part.
As far as your own race experience and being cut off? Irrelevant. Does Barr shift to the right (or left for that matter) at all? No. Does the Saugus girl quickly cut left right before Barr goes down? Yes.
It seems as though a combination of a race official proving his/her worth by making such an important call and the Saugus girl lacking confidence in the rest of her team thus sacrificing the integrity of her own race has resulted in Barr becoming the scapegoat for one of the biggest upsets in high school cross country.
Its a shame so many of you feel so invested in this event that you cannot throw away your bias and see the reality of what happened. Whichever official made the call must be regretting the decision now that the video shows just what happened.
9.5/10
That's an excellent trolling attempt. It's hard to troll threads like this because the temptation to contrarian viewpoints is just too hard for many to resist.
I was there but didn't see the end of this race.
Runners should hold their line. Leaving your line to obstruct another runner isn't a technicality - it's cheating.
Saugus wore the exact same uniforms at both section and states. Look at the pictures buddy. Who cares, anyways, the still ran the race, stop trying to bash on Saugus, an amazing program with amazing coaches and athletes. Congrats to the top four teams in d2 girls!
A state as large as Cali and that is your State Meet Site??!?!?! What is with all the crap in the chute...a ladder?!?!? What's with the dude waving the checkered flag in the chute...is that really necessary?
The Saugus girl you speak of is Jenay Jauregui and I can assure you she did not lack confidence in the rest of her team did. If she did, they wouldn't have won. Bullshit, you all are just out to bash on the great accomplishment the Saugus girl and her team took part in yesterday. Welcome to letsrun.com, home of the biggest jackasses on the planet. That is all this site is, people criticizing every great thing that happens in our sport. Nothing new. To me, all this means absolutely nothing, this site is a load of crap. No wonder our sport is jack shit in the US. These negative comment have occurred on the high school, college and pro level on these forums.
shut up bitch wrote:
Saugus wore the exact same uniforms at both section and states. Look at the pictures buddy. Who cares, anyways, the still ran the race, stop trying to bash on Saugus, an amazing program with amazing coaches and athletes. Congrats to the top four teams in d2 girls!
Hey, I guarantee I am closer to the Saugus program than you are. I hate uniform rules and have never dqd an athlete over a uniform violation, although I have always told them to fix the issue asap so it didn't bite them with another official. I mentioned it as "ironic," which it was. I could easily document the violation but will not as there are some anti Saugus people here. But if you do look at the photos or video, it's easy to spot. Paragas himself stated at the meet Barr should not have been dqd as he knows both athletes were following a line to the finish, unfortunately they were converging lines as sometimes happens in xc. This has been a very civilized thread for the most part except for apparently you. Why don't you go have a coke and a smile and shut up?
Really !??!!?? wrote:
A state as large as Cali and that is your State Meet Site??!?!?! What is with all the crap in the chute...a ladder?!?!? What's with the dude waving the checkered flag in the chute...is that really necessary?
This.
One of the reasons the collision happened and the all runners were making right/left weave to the finish is the line and chute were not corresponding to the natural tangent of the finish. A simple fix for officials in changing the angle of the finish would have eradicated these problems.
What is the distance to the finish after that final turn?
Looks pretty short...
Thread Follower wrote:
What is the distance to the finish after that final turn?
Looks pretty short...
Here's a map:
http://jesuittrack.org/woodwardpark5k.pdfSo, a little over 440 yards from the last turn.
The video is deceiving as it makes you think they turn off the road onto the grass (about 100 meters to go)but they actually remain straight away from the turning road. As mentioned above the last real turn is about 500 meters from the finish.
Really !??!!?? wrote:
A state as large as Cali and that is your State Meet Site??!?!?! What is with all the crap in the chute...a ladder?!?!? What's with the dude waving the checkered flag in the chute...is that really necessary?
The ladder and flag waver are both 20-30 past the finish line and off to the side of the finish shoot and not in the way. This video was taken from about 200 yards away and you cannot get accurate depth perception from it. The is nothing in the way of the runners as they finish.
Cali Dreams wrote:
ok, just watched the video for a fifth time and how about this as a reason for a DQ. She received help getting across the finish line. if her chip didn't activate til 18:35, she had had already been picked up and walked across the line by the official at that point. While it would suck, that is a fair DQ. The big question is did she fall down short of the line and receive assistance before her chip tripped the pad. if so, as much as I hate to say it, it's a good DQ.
Barr was not helped across the line by an official, she was not picked up until after her feet (with the chips) crossed the line. I was at the finish line and have enjoyed hearing all of the theories written on here. I guess the only way to really clear it up is to see the front view video that the timing company, Record Timing, has. Or maybe a picture will show up from one of the dozen or so photographers at the finish line.
shut up bitch wrote:
Saugus wore the exact same uniforms at both section and states. Look at the pictures buddy. Who cares, anyways, the still ran the race, stop trying to bash on Saugus, an amazing program with amazing coaches and athletes. Congrats to the top four teams in d2 girls!
Remember kids, it's "State" not "States" and we drove there on "The 99" not "99".
Let's at least be clear on that.
Her chip registered at 18:35. She was picked up by the official around 18:30. The chips timing system disagrees with you.
Cali dreams wrote:
Her chip registered at 18:35. She was picked up by the official around 18:30. The chips timing system disagrees with you.
A couple points:
1. The time on the clock is not official and is usually about a second slow because it is started by hand after the race starts.
2. The mat that registers the chip time is not right on the finish line and doesn't get the chip time until roughly 1-2 feet past the line.
3. So, at about 18:34 she stood up into the arms of the official right on the line (again, I was within 10 feet) and took that next step which stopped her chip time.
dpb333 wrote:
A couple points:
1. The time on the clock is not official and is usually about a second slow because it is started by hand after the race starts.
2. The mat that registers the chip time is not right on the finish line and doesn't get the chip time until roughly 1-2 feet past the line.
3. So, at about 18:34 she stood up into the arms of the official right on the line (again, I was within 10 feet) and took that next step which stopped her chip time.
Ok, so what you're saying is the chip time, which her feet didn't stop/record until AFTER the judge walked her across the mat, is not the official time nor is the chip mat the official finish line in spite of the fact that it is how official times are recorded. If such is the case,I'm agreeing even more with the poster who said Cali has a screwed up way of running the state meet. I'm pretty sure if what you're saying is true, it's not even NFHS legal.