I am an idiot: Next year I will have three kids at expensive private colleges in non-technical majors

Assert wrote:

Biggest mistake. Bought our home for $115,000 in '85 and was valued at $510K in '03 and never sold it. It's back to $230K value, but oh well... biggest regret.

So if you sold it, where would you have lived in the meantime? Another house would have also cost more.

How about German Fernandez? NCAA 1500 champion and a 3:55i, but as far as I can tell his 800 PR is 1:52.

joecrunner wrote:

If the kids have a choice, how about you let them major in what they want in? Too many people are obsessed with "gotta get a high paying job as soon as I graduate", how about you study what you are good at, and what you are passionate about? Honestly, I'll prob end up being a liberal arts major. I want to do what makes me happy.

Do what makes you happy. No one complains about that. But pay for it yourself. And don't complain later if you don't make as much as the next guy. All too common a scenario of today.

Letting your child "pick what they want to major in" sounds great in the shower, but I'm not sure it's a sure-bet strategy for all. If your child is extremely focused / determined and clearly knows what he/she wants to do, that approach may work, but how many kids in HS really know that? Additionally, for some of us who don't have excess cash, we need to make sure that there is a Return on Investment for the money we spend on our children's education since a)we don't have the money to pay for additional education if they made a mistake and need to change majors, b)we don't want to encourage the child to move back home because they've chosen a major with limited job opportunities and/or limited pay, and c)we want to see our children make a buck = we hate to see them struggle.

For these reasons we took a different approach = we looked at what they were good at and then guided them in a direction which matched those skill-sets.

All of our children were good a math / science so we asked them what they wanted to do. They told us "we don't know" and so we suggested they start-out in engineering and they could always consider switching majors later if they found something they really liked more. (Being an engineer I also knew that engineering grads usually had a better chance at employment than many other degress + you wouldn't starve).

As I wrote in the past above:

Son #1: Started in Chemical Engineering at Virginia Tech, left after a year and transferred to the University of Maine graduating in BioChemical engineering. Has a good job in the paper industry.

Daughter: Started in Biological Engineering at Pitt but quickly changed to Industrial Engineering. In her junior year she advised us that "I don't want to be an engineer"; we asked her if she wanted to change majors and spend another year or two in school...she said "nah, I'm this close now...I'll just finish up in Engineering". She graduated as an Industrial Engineer but went immediately into teaching (math), loves it, and she is convinced that her engineering degree got her into the very-competitive NYC Teaching Fellows program (which paid 100% of her Masters degree at Pace).

Son #2: Started in Mech. Engr, screwed around too much, we pulled in him out of school and he took 2 years off being a ski instructor, tending bar, and giving us heartburn as we hoped that, one day, he would go back to school. He has just started back at Buffalo...a little older, a little more mature, and we think he is on his way to finishing up there in 1.5 years with a Mech. Eng. degree.

Anyway, it has worked out well for our children with their math / science backgrounds and degrees but they have many friends who were just as bright but, instead, majored in marketing, business, etc in their respective colleges...and unfortunately it has not been as easy for them. The economy and/or the competition for the few jobs available has made life much more difficult for them; many are unemployed or under-employed. My point is, I think that, as parents, doing your best to guide your children into a field that offers a few more opportunities and/or pays a little better is not a bad decision. I simply don't think that most HS children are able to make that choice completely on their own...yet this choice can have huge ramifications down the road in terms of their employment opportunity and/or their earning potential.

150K/year not a lot of money?? You people are ridiculous. Sounds like your kids are spoiled brats. For you to say 150K is not a lot of money tells me how much of a jerk you are. What do you want people to feel sorry for you for sending kids to private colleges? 150K not a lot of money, smh.

If you want to work in business, why not major in business? Some of the most successful people I know were business majors who actually worked hard in and out of school.

Kid Charlemagne wrote:

Business - accounting or finance - no bullshit marketing or buisness admin degree.

On the other hand if you have the gift of BS you'll make scads more than any techie, and have much more fun doing it.

Sale/Marketing skills aren't being outsourced overseas. Engineering jobs are.

This is a very interesting thread, but I liken it to good looks. You get lots more choices in life if you are cute. Likewise if your kids are smart you can pick from all sorts of sensible sounding stategies. But what if, despite good parenting, they're say 2.5 or 3 GPA? Or, as has been said, they just are not focussed on a direction yet?

For parents college is :

Kids really smart - Easy to decide and cheap (scholarships)

Kids smart - Easy to decide but expensive

Kids average (most people)- Much harder to decide everything.

Kids dumb - Easy to decide. Get what you can.

I'd say the most important thing in HS is to (try to)impress on the kid the importance of at least trying to think about the long-term direction of their working life. Changing career direction after 5-10 yrs is very wasteful - and lots of people do it - sometimes multiple times.

What does your friend do, what city and school?

Don't Fret wrote:

I have a friend who graduated this year with a political science major and a ~2.9 gpa. He got a job during the summer where he expects to make $130K this year and $200k+ next year (that's what he told me at least, but it is entirely realistic from what I understand). Don't give up hope. My friend isn't the smartest guy, but he has a personality that makes him exceptionally good at what he does. The college degree was necessary too, and it has really paid off well for him.

Real Words wrote:

150K/year not a lot of money?? You people are ridiculous. Sounds like your kids are spoiled brats. For you to say 150K is not a lot of money tells me how much of a jerk you are. What do you want people to feel sorry for you for sending kids to private colleges? 150K not a lot of money, smh.

Excuse me, but you're the complete jerk. All my kids work jobs and are responsible for their own spending money and paying us about 5k a year towards their education. I am happy with what I make. But I will say this again: 150k is not as much as you think once you subtract your obligations, and raising 4 kids through the college years has significant obligations. It's not what you make, but what you have at the end of the day that matters. Money I need to save so when I'm 85 I'm still financially independent and don't have to ask my kids for help.

Twenty years from now you'll be looking at pictures of yourself in your Occupy whatever tent and think about what a jerk you were.

I went to the local four-year college -- Michigan State -- and lived at home. It cost $3,000 a year in the late 1980s. There are plenty of good colleges in the D.C. area your kids could attend. I lived a year in Montgomery County when I was in grade school, and later a few months after college, with my grandmother. My brother lives there now. Upper-middle class kids in that area feel they're entitled to an elite college experience.

I should probably chime in on behalf of "the 1%"--no, not the richest 1%, but the smartest. If your kid has top-caliber intellectual talent (National Merit Scholar or thereabouts, or top few percent on ACT/SAT), please don't short-change him or her by pushing for a cheap school. People talk as it there isn't a difference in career prospects between top private schools (Williams, Ivies) and the local state college, but that just isn't true. You can look up the numbers yourself. Your horizons are infinitely broadened, particularly if you are a great student (and the networking helps a lot too). Likewise, don't pigeonhole your kid into a "productive" major (science, math, finance) if he or she is very smart. Highly intelligent people are vastly successful in the fields they choose, so while an art history or sociology degree may not mean much to Joe Blow 2.8 GPA at State U, a very smart kid can do a lot with an art history degree from a top school. The world needs scholars and museum curators, after all, and those jobs pay quite well.

Anyways, you can complain all you want about gender studies or history majors from your local state school, but realize that a graduate majoring in the same thing from an elite private school is in all likelihood going to have a very successful and profitable career (not to mention an enjoyable one).

And then of course there's the whole topic of a liberal arts education. A "history major" from a liberal arts school has also taken math, science, literature, etc., and is a very versatile asset to an employer. I know history and religion majors who work for healthcare companies, IT departments, nonprofits, and government agencies.

I'm an author about to publish my fourth book, with a well-known New York house. I've also been published in Playboy, The New York Times, Utne and the Columbia Journalism Review. Despite its "cheapness," Michigan State is a great place to learn to be a writer, as Richard Ford, Thomas McGuane, Jim Harrison and Tom Bissell can also attest. It's not, admittedly, the best place to learn to be a d-bag.

Canada? wrote:

Why is tutiton so high in the USA? I go to school in Canada and my tuition is 6K. Is that comparable to most In-state tuition prices in the USA?

I have heard of many US students going to UToronto or McGillU (both top 50 universities in the world). Do they pay an increased price in tuition for being international students?

If not, why don't way more Americans take advantage of the killer prices north of the boarder.

and heck, ya we could always use more school athletic spirit.

It's the same reason why the US doesn't have a government run universal healthcare system. It is still comparable to the smaller state universities like Western or Eastern [insert state here]. The "flagship" universities, University of [insert state here] are $10k-$20k. I think there are probably a few reasons. The USA doesn't fund their public universities enough. Professors and administration make pretty high salaries. Universities are fancy and have all the bells and whistles. They are often upgrading their buildings.

I think a lot of Americans who study in Canada have scholarships or well-to-do parents or else they pay the a pretty high international tuition.

Financially you are much better off having them in school at the same time. The worst situation woulkd ber tohave all four kids being four years apart. The financial assistance is much greater when they are in together.

However you are in the screwed income bracket as far as college goes. There is plenty of financial assistance for those making under $70,000 and those making over $500,000 don't need it. But the upper middle class is screwed as far as tuition help goes.

I'm bored so I'll add my 2 cents.

I think one major problem with the college major discussion is that as us Americans got more spoiled and felt more entitled to everything for nothing over the past 60 years, we started to buy too much in to the "do what you love" hype.

First, if all of this terrible big business and technology that much of the "do what you love" crowd went away, we'd all be back to "doing what we have to and hopefully not dying in the winter." Who knows, that time could be coming for a lot of people pretty soon.

Second, you can do what you love with your free time. People love history--read books at night instead of watching TV. You don't need to spend your parents' life savings to learn about history (or english or music or psychology or american indian art). During the day do something that helps create or improve something and pays the bills.

I have a PhD in electrical engineering even though it's certainly not my passion. And guess what--my grad education was not only free--I was PAID do to go school. Do people not realize that PhDs in engineering and other technical fields earn a salary in grad school? It baffles me that I was the only american in my research group. Then when I got out, I started in an interesting job where I'm making something tangible that nearly every person in the world uses in one capacity or another, and base salary alone was over 100k (not to mention great benefits and bonuses). I still have time to run, read, and enjoy life in general even though the work is demanding.

I think you are slightly incorrect here. Yes, the average lifetime income from those graduating from Ivy's (or equivalent) are higher than those who graduate from non-Ivy's. Why? Because, as a group, they are generally brighter kids. However, there are several studies which show that kids who have gotten into Ivy's, but turned them down to choose other schools, earn exactly the same amounts over their lifetimes. The moral of the story? If you have the intellectual horsepower to get into an Ivy, you will do very well no matter where you (by the way, the best study on this was done by professors from Princeton...so you would think they would be biased towards the Ivy but their data showed entirely the opposite).

With this being said, you are not "short-changing" a child by encouraging them to consider a lower-cost school. Is an engineering graduate from Virginia Tech or Georgia Tech or Penn State any less qualified than an engineering graduate from Princeton? All 3 cost half as much as an Ivy, their engineering schools are rated just as high (if not higher) and it's graduates will be offered exactly the same starting salary as the Princeton grad. Is this a bad choice? Not in my opinion.

This is not about "short changing" a child. This is about making prudent financial choices and I believe, from personal experience (my daughter was admitted to Penn but respectfully declined to go to Pitt) and with all due respect to Penn, it was clearly the best choice for her (she had a great experience there) and for us (writing the checks).

Blankety blank wrote:

You sound like a bad parent.

And you sound like a troll without kids.

To Azaleas: I am not suggesting that, if you want to work in business, that you not major in business in college. I also agree with you that there are many business majors that graduate and do very well.

My personal take on this is a bit different today in that I know, from personal experience, that an engineering graduate can easily learn to run a business (I'm an engineer and learned to read an Income Statement, a Balance Sheet, etc) but it's not as easy the other way. So, in an economy where jobs are tough to come-by and many graduates are having a tough time getting offers, why not pick a major which gives you the best chance at getting a job / offer upon (or before) graduation? And then, once you have your foot-in-the-door (an engineering degree is an excellent door-opener, many businesses like hiring engineers due to their problem-solving skills, as do med schools, law schools, etc) you can always move to the "business" side?

Anyway, I realize this approach is not for everyone and I certainly would not recommend an engineering curriculum for a student who is not strong in math / science, but I do feel it is an excellent option for kids that have that aptitude, it offers outstanding job opportunities for it's graduates, the starting salaries are excellent, and from there on out, it's up to you.

To your point though, if you are willing to work hard and get good grades in school, and if you're then willing to put in an 80 hour work-week, your chances of doing well in this country are clearly better than most. It can be done, and you don't need to go into debt to do it.