2 runners die today @ Philly Marathon

ATRunner wrote:

Yes, they were properly trained. The 21 year old finished the half marathon in 1:58. The 40 year old would have finished in about 3:30

The 40yo would have been faster. I got there around 3:05 after the start and he was already there. Not sure if he was aiming for sub3. Being 40, the Boston Q could not have been it - that would be 3:15 I believe.

Regarding the 21yo. Not sure what his training was but there are many 21yo who can run that kind of times without training or at least without specific training.

Been reading the thread on ST

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat

;post=3645137;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; he was a regular, respected poster over there.

sad, very sad, thoughts go to his wife and kids.

VF Runner wrote:

As always, I hope we hear more about what actually happened to him (both of them) so that we can learn from a tragedy.

More than likely it'll turn out like Shay's tragedy, in which the tox results were never released. We might get a he-said type summary, instead of the actual results.

My bet is that the 21 year old suffered an arrhythmia and the 40 year old was hit with a widow-maker - by age 40 we all have some sort of plaque layering our arteries...unfortunately even the fittest of individuals can have a plaque disruption of sorts - and if it happens on the left main artery it is very hard to survive that monster without immediate invasive action. Brian Maxwell, Andy Palmer, Ric Sayre - all former national and world class runners that died while still very fit. Alberto is happy to have survived.

Condolences to all who knew these Phila runners.

Many of us are older, but very in shape, and very competitive runners (i.e. we hate not to kick it in). We don't need to be told that running is benefiting us more than not running, as we already know that.

However, not dying at the end of a marathon at age 40, will increase my lifespan a lot more than if I do die.

In searching for answers we are not mirroring the "don't run it will kill you" hysteria, we are trying to avoid being that guy that is well trained, in seemingly good health, doing everything right, but still dying.

In my reading, it seems having an underlying condition is the key fact. The second does seem to be the kick. Perhaps the sudden increase in heart rate brought on my a sudden increase in speed is more dangerous than a slow increase in pace from a mile out - even if max heart rate would be the same.

As for caffeine - there may be no definitive answer, but I am willing to forgo it, is it not essential to me in any way.

I used to downplay the risk here, but seeing too many guys that on the surface are just like me die, I am motivated to take this seriously.

Healthy guys also die on ordinary training runs, though. The best you can do is probably to eat healthy and get on statins if your cholesterol is high.

wannabe. wrote:

Azaleas wrote:

Anytime you get 25000+ people together performing rigorous exercise, there's a good chance someone's going to die. This is the reality now that marathons have become so popular. You could be as stringent as you want on fitness, and there's still a reasonable chance that people are going to die.

Condolences to the runners' family and friends... What is written above is true. Most people who die at a race probably have some underlying condition that becomes evident under the stress of racing.

This. Especially about some "underlying condition" that becomes evident under the stress of racing.

Either way, very sad to hear...

Good point.

Freelove wrote:

Healthy guys also die on ordinary training runs, though. The best you can do is probably to eat healthy and get on statins if your cholesterol is high.

Are you aware that statins reduce the amount of CoQ10 enzyme? And that the heart has the most of it in your body?

I'm not a doctor, but I know that doctors prescribe statins for high cholesterol and there's evidence that they prevent heart attacks. Are you a doctor, or are you just reposting things you saw on a blog?

One of the folks on Slowtwitch mentioned that Chris (the 40 year old) was trying to break 3:00 and that he'd picked up his pace in the last 10K and looked liked he'd make that goal time.

long sox wrote:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-11-01/news/30347967_1_lewis-g-maharam-sudden-death-caffeine

Or one of the other on-line articles saying much the same thing.

What a complete load of crap.

Are you an MD? Have you done research in this area? Why is it crap?

asdfasdfa wrote:

Are you an MD? Have you done research in this area? Why is it crap?

No I'm not an MD, just an opinionated bugger.

The article appears to be based on conjecture rather than science.

We'll see what comes out of the IMMDA meeting on December 3rd in Vegas.

No, he was saying that IN THE LAST FEW MILES of a marathon, you'll be at max HR whether you kick hard or moderately. Learn to read.

They don't always die at the end. Ryan Shay died 5mi into the race. Plenty of people keel over 6mi or 12mi into the race.

maharam is a fat arrogant moron who got canned as the official doctor of the nycm. i wouldn't believe a word he has to say.

BradW wrote:

fgdgdfhfd wrote:

On a news piece i saw they said the 21 year old was taken to the hospital around 9:30. The race started at 7:00 so, if he was running the full, he was in pretty good shape.

Except that he ran the half.

There was a wave start--so if he ran just under 2 hours, as reported, the official clock likely showed about 2:15 or so. He had raced before and was active. But some reports said he was planning to run the marathon. Marathoners had the option of switching to a half marathon finish if they chose and having their results scored as a half. Quite a few people with marathon bibs did this, I noticed. I wonder then if he was aware that something wasn't right and decided to bag the marathon and finish the half.

Whatever is the case, as others said, my condolences to the families of both runners.

I keep hoping for foolproof ways to prevent things like this from happening--probably early screening, while not foolproof, could do a world of good, but what kind of tests? The EKG can show a lot... but still can fall short.

NYTimes - Dec 14

"Can a cup of coffee motivate you to relish your trips to the gym this winter? That question is at the heart of a notable study of caffeine and exercise, one of several new experiments suggesting that, whatever your sport, caffeine may allow you to perform better and enjoy yourself more.

Scientists and many athletes have known for years, of course, that a cup of coffee before a workout jolts athletic performance, especially in endurance sports like distance running and cycling. Caffeine has been proven to increase the number of fatty acids circulating in the bloodstream, which enables people to run or pedal longer (since their muscles can absorb and burn that fat for fuel and save the body’s limited stores of carbohydrates until later in the workout). As a result, caffeine, which is legal under International Olympic Committee rules, is the most popular drug in sports. More than two-thirds of about 20,680 Olympic athletes studied for a recent report had caffeine in their urine, with use highest among triathletes, cyclists and rowers."

Rest of article

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/how-coffee-can-galvanize-your-workout/