Simon Bairu Blasts Ryan Craven

Even with the quote, I have absolutely no idea why everyone has their panties in a bunch.

barnaby smalls wrote:

Thank you, yarbles. I pointed out when Craven was published by Letsrun the first time that he is a terrible writer--one of those English majors who is 'drug' around by his own vocabulary.

Agreed.

And yet the BroJos think it is well written.

rojo wrote:

The quote that was deleted in my opinion really has nothing to do with the controversy that is brewing about what in my opinion is a very well written article.

Do these guys ever have an ounce of introspection and criticism? Can they even recognize when something is written well? Or written poorly?

When I do something poorly, I can generally judge that my skills aren't up to task. I either try to improve them, or abandon that task for someone who can do it better.

I don't continue to do the same piss-poor job and then compliment others who have the same deficiencies as doing well.

The one thing that has not been mentioned on this thread is the mixed emotions/actions that accompany a coaching change. For example, Evan Jager turned pro and Brandon Bethke transferred to ASU. As a point of reference not criticism, Jerry's resignation occurred in June after track season.

Why have we all forgotten when Jerry out thought himself with Withrow. When Withrow was getting beat in the early season by his teammates, he decided he didn't need him to win the big one. Later in the season Withrow was easily in the top 5, but he redshirted him and Wisco ended up second at the NCAA's. Withrow sent on to be injured 3 of the next 4 years and Jerry didn't get his NCAA championship bonus that year.

Quite the tempest in a teapot. After reading the flotrack piece, I'd say overall it was a nice bit of insight comparing 2 style of coaching- one resonated more with Craven, and he has a job that pays him to write about it. Good for him. Sure, confusing subjective/objective and "apart" is not perfect- but guess what: it's flotrack, not the New Yorker. I don't think perfect grammar and usage is at the top of their priority list. I always wondered why the big letdowns at some national meets for wisconsin, and this is as good a theory as any I've seen. Could be totally wrong, but it's his right to put it out there. There certainly wasn't anything I would characterize as dragging Schumacher through the mud. I really don't see what the big deal is.

HAHAHA. NIcely played.

The brojos are men of integrity and are the only reason old guys like me still follow the sport. U r way off base. Secondly they r mature enough to not take ur crap to heart.

Haha yes, thank you. Best post of the thread (sorry Rojo, you're a close second... or a "closed" second, as one of my more grammatically impaired friends likes to say).

FloBroJos wrote:

Do these guys ever have an ounce of introspection and criticism? Can they even recognize when something is written well? Or written poorly?

When I do something poorly, I can generally judge that my skills aren't up to task. I either try to improve them, or abandon that task for someone who can do it better.

I don't continue to do the same piss-poor job and then compliment others who have the same deficiencies as doing well.

The most offensive thing about this whole incident is the poor writing. Rojo's statement about the article being well-written made me laugh out loud.

All the Grammar Police are "Pre-Madonnas"

Even without the quote in there I don't see the point of including certain pieces of information that he did. For all the guys out there who ran on a good and most likely intense DI program you all know what i'm talking about. For those of you who didn't I can understand that you don't think this is a big deal. Either way the article was poorly timed for this years Badger team and could have been written a different way and in better taste and gotten the same point across. It's not going to help their focus and i'm sure Mick isn't too happy with Ryan for writing it. Some runners just can't take the pressure and Ryan was one of them, but you shouldn't rip others who can and a coach who takes the NCAA race very seriously. Keep in mind, Wisconsin Cross Country is a very different beast than most DI programs. The long success and multiple championships have created something that each person is very prideful of. I ran for Martin Smith on the Wisconsin teams he coached and I would "never" air my experience or Martin's coaching style and personality on the internet..you just don't do it.

these are just trolls. do you really think simon bairu and chris solinksy would post on facebook? it sounds like a ridiculous overreaction because it is. they would never say these things. i thought craven's point was well thought out and interesting. these are just people pretending to be bairu and solinsky

Material Girl wrote:

All the Grammar Police are "Pre-Madonnas"

Not for a person who is a 'writer' having the a lot of time to compose a piece of writing. For those responding, there is less of an issue.

What is this, skull and bones? Omerta? The CIA? Newsflash- it's just running. You may be pridefull of the program's long success, multiple championships, etc, but unless you guys signed some sort of non-disclosure document, people get to write about their life experiences. No one has to read them, and no magazine has to buy them. But you are and they did. As for timing, lets face it: an article contrasting coaching styles, especially around a big meet, is probably going to get the most interest around that meet.

rojo wrote:

It's unfortunate that in today's society that nothing can be nuanced any more. If you say anything mildly critical, you are ripping someone.

It's not "today's society," it's letsrun. The rest of the world is not like this forum, and this forum is not the center of the world. The way that you and your brother guide this forum has made for the atmosphere you speak of now. There is no gray area in your mind. I remind you of the "alan webb tantrum" incident.

break it up wrote:

I respect their loyalty to their coach.

Ryan Craven is a Prospect Athlete of the Decade. Somehow Chris and Simon have overlooked that fact in their attempt to support an individual obviously overlooked by the good people of Prospect.

Anyone else notice Bairu removed his whole rant from facebook?

makes u wonder how training is going when u spend much your time on the internet ranting about what others write in articles that involve your coach, and i stand by my clam that simon was dumped in the garbage can in the showers because he tried to finger blast solinsky!

It not like you can be running fifty hours a week....