Equivalence of 800 & 1500 times ?

52.43 wrote:Yeah, but the reason he can't use his speed is that he is/was lacking endurance

tell me something i don't know

The 11.3 is a significant number, no matter what the pace of the 800m was

nonsense

caballo & mark everett couda gone sub-11 in a slow enough 800 & they never cracked 1'43

it doesn't show that this race would have been THE race, but it DOES show, that the 46.0-speed was still there

but it doesn't show he was better than 1'41.7

In Oslo (11th)he could have challenged his time, no reason to think otherwise

speculation

not backed up by 800s run after wr

And the track there is for certain better known to be fast than the track in Firenze.

eh ???

tell that to aouita

he ran then 3'32.54pb there in '83 & his next best was 3'33.95 that year

tell him firenze was slower than oslo...

Caballo has to much speed, not enough endurance whereas Coe has. He has the best overdistance endurance of any 800m runner in history, that fact you can't deny. What he needed (and trained years specifically for) is the speed. 11.3 is a sign of 46.0-speed at the least. So the speed is still there, the endurance has improved...you got the idea what will happen in between?!

And one runner who happens to have his sb in Firence is no prove whatsoever of the quality of that track...

52.43 wrote:Caballo has to much speed, not enough endurance whereas Coe has

plenty damn endurance for the era, with gold & 2 wrs - 1st one an essentially solo 1'43.50

What he needed (and trained years specifically for) is the speed. 11.3 is a sign of 46.0-speed at the least

& there are close to a dozen elite 800 guys who have quicker 400s

So the speed is still there, the endurance has improved...you got the idea what will happen in between?

no

we have no idea of how quick he was for 1500 in june '81

And one runner who happens to have his sb in Firence is no prove whatsoever of the quality of that track...

nonsense

the olympic 5k champ

he ran then 13'04pb there in '84 & next best from him was 13'12

what part of your peabrain is not registering "fast track" ???

So, what gives your calculator for 46.0 and 3:28.0? I'm curious...

1'41.93

coe in his wr was likely

45.7/45.8 & potential 3'27.0

the potential 3'27.0 but only likely 3'28 at best in '81 indicates his endurance didn't last "perfectly" to 1500 - he was still essentially a 800 guy who also ran 1500, albeit to wr level - think of it like kaki - he is essentially a 800 guy but has managed to go a superb 3'31.7 - if his endurance extended "perfectly" to 1500, he woud be around 3'28, but 3'31.7 is nothing to complain about for a guy not generally reckoned to be any force over 1500

45.7/45.8 with 3'27.0 ->1'41.36 - 1'41.46

CRAP!

Total embellishment. I have the race on dvd and its there on Youtube. The lead guy hit 600m in 1:19.56, with Kipketer no more than 2.5m behind. That's 1:19.9, possibly slightly faster, but not 1:20.0.

He certainly does not run the whole of the last bend in the middle of lane 2!! He veers out into the inside of lane 2 in the last 30 -40m of the bend as he enters the straight. If he'd run the entire bend in lane 2, that would have been 3.5m more. 5m is a joke.

He hits the 700m line in 1:32.5, meaning his last 100m was 12.6, as his finishing time was 1:45.08.

So we have a last 200m of 25.2, NOT 25.0 and a last 100m of 12.6 in a 1:45.08 race.

Even if we're generous and say he ran 3m further round the bend, that gives an absolute maximum last 200m of 24.8. More likely 24.9.

Coe ran 24.9 in the last 200m in Moscow 800m, and he certainly ran further over the entire last bend than Kipketer did. His last 100m in a 1:45.8 was 12.6 also. His last 200m was worth more like 24.5. And he ran a much faster penultimate 200m.

Coe also ran a 24.5 last 200m in a 1:45.4 in Viareggio in 79. That's faster than Kipketer's in the 95 World Champs.

And Kip's 12.6 in a 1:45.0 isn't as good as Coe's 12.4 in his 1:44.0 (81) or his 12.4/24.8 (also running slightly wide) in the 1:44.5 in 86 Europeans.

As the above was inaccurate and didn't meet the requirements of what I asked for, you'd better try again!?

So what? He was the bloody World Champion and beat the best the World could offer. I never said he or it was a great performance, I gave it to you as an example to help you on your way.

Try again.

ventolin^3 wrote:

52.43 wrote:Yeah, but the reason he can't use his speed is that he is/was lacking endurance

tell me something i don't know

The 11.3 is a significant number, no matter what the pace of the 800m was

nonsense

caballo & mark everett couda gone sub-11 in a slow enough 800 & they never cracked 1'43

More nonsense. "COUDA"? But didn't did they? Perhaps if it was 1:55 they would have run sub 12 last 100m.

They both must have run many races in the 1:46/1:47 area in their careers, so please tell me when and where they ran even 12.0 flat? Please, enlighten us?

ventolin^3 wrote:

So the speed is still there, the endurance has improved...you got the idea what will happen in between?

no

we have no idea of how quick he was for 1500 in june '81

WHAT? You're on record on these very boards stating it was worth 3:28.3 based on your uneven splits formula (3:30.6) and lack of drafting for 1000m (2.3secs). Do you want me to quote you?

Are you now saying you were wrong? In which case you must be wrong about lots of other things, since the vast majority of what you spout is based on your mathematical formulae for uneven splits, conversions, etc.

His 3:31.9 was worth at least 3:28.3. Not only due to lack of drafting and uneven splits, but also because he was given no lap times whatsoever during the race.

ventolin^3 wrote:

In Oslo (11th)he could have challenged his time, no reason to think otherwise

speculation

not backed up by 800s run after wr

SPECULATION? All you're bloody ravings are based on speculation!

ROFL!!

no

i get it as 3m+ with significant parallax of an angled camera shot

idiot

you haven't got an auto clocking of him at 600m

from 3m+ gap, i get 1'20.0

nonsense

youtube vid shows him wider than anyone on the bend & there is no sudden swerve even wider

he is running same position thruout the curve

imbecile

you don't have a clue about this

lane 1 is 1.20m with 400m distance measured at 0.20m from kerb

lane 2 is 1.22m

distance from 400m line to middle of lane 2 is :

[( 1.20 - 0.2 ) + ( 0.5 * 1.22 )] * pi =

5.05m

drivel

the corrected time he ran for 200m off actual 205m was

24.4s

& therefore a corrected curve of

11.8s !

idiot

read above about curve analysis

it was more like 24.4

drivel

he is already into lane 1 by end of bend

no way his overall extra curve distance run was same as kip

moron

kip ran much faster 400 split of 53.0 compared to coe's 55.0 - much more fatigued entering 2nd lap

not a corrected last 200m - that was 24.4 & that 1'45.4 is still slower than kip's

idiot

did he run equivalent of a 5m extra long bend in 11.8 s !!!

moron

you need remedial maths & logic help

offering a 1'44.5 guy to discussion offers nothing

Deanouk wrote:More nonsense. "COUDA"? But didn't did they? Perhaps if it was 1:55 they would have run sub 12 last 100m

idiot

for low/mid-44 guys with 1'43 ability, it doesn't need to be as slow as 1'55 pace to run last 100 in 11.0

They both must have run many races in the 1:46/1:47 area in their careers, so please tell me when and where they ran even 12.0 flat? Please, enlighten us?

because no one but an idiot bothers noting last 100m times in low key 1'46/1'47 races

your numbskull can't comprehend that low/mid 44 guys can finish in 11.00 in slow enough races ???

everett didn't go in for slow races at his peak

in his peak years of '90 - '93, he ran trials in

1'45.01 , 1'44.28 , 1'43.67 , 1'44.43

as for caballo - world low altitude 400 record of 44.26 tells you all you need to know about his 100m speed

Deanouk wrote:WHAT? You're on record on these very boards stating it was worth 3:28.3 based on your uneven splits formula (3:30.6) and lack of drafting for 1000m (2.3secs). Do you want me to quote you?

Are you now saying you were wrong? In which case you must be wrong about lots of other things, since the vast majority of what you spout is based on your mathematical formulae for uneven splits, conversions, etc.

His 3:31.9 was worth at least 3:28.3. Not only due to lack of drafting and uneven splits, but also because he was given no lap times whatsoever during the race.

idiot

you have comprehension problems

i said we have no idea of his 1500 in june '81 as he hadn't run any in that month

his 1500/mile races came july/august, when he was in low-3'28 shape of his best race

Deanouk wrote:SPECULATION? All you're bloody ravings are based on speculation!

ROFL!!

moron

my "speculation" appears lot better than your nonsensical scribblings of wrong analysis of even basic maths - try learning how to work out extra distance on a curve for a start

to speculate you have to have damn good reasons for any projection

something you are incapable of

All nonsense. For a start you need to get your eyes tested.

The 200m stagger is fixed at 3.51m, meaning that if he ran the entire bend in lane 2 (which he did not!) he'd have run 103.51m. All the rest of your "points" fall apart with this fact.

Only you could convert a 12.6 curve into 11.8.

ventolin^3 wrote:

because no one but an idiot bothers noting last 100m times in low key 1'46/1'47 races

your numbskull can't comprehend that low/mid 44 guys can finish in 11.00 in slow enough races ???

everett didn't go in for slow races at his peak

in his peak years of '90 - '93, he ran trials in

1'45.01 , 1'44.28 , 1'43.67 , 1'44.43

as for caballo - world low altitude 400 record of 44.26 tells you all you need to know about his 100m speed

He "didn't go in for slow races"!? Are you serious? Did he have a crystal ball and know what the time of the race would be before he ran them? LOL

You can waffle all you like, but you still HAVEN'T produced a single sub 12.0 last 100s from all these athletes.

Deanouk wrote:The 200m stagger is fixed at 3.51m, meaning that if he ran the entire bend in lane 2 (which he did not!) he'd have run 103.51m. All the rest of your "points" fall apart with this fact

moron

this is nothing to do with stagger

you are clueless about maths

400m line is 0.20m from kerb

lane 1 is 1.20m wide, so lane 2 line is 1.0m from this

lanes 2 - 8 are 1.22m wide

middle of lane 2 is 0.61m

therefore , running all of curve in middle of lane 2 , AS HE DID is

1.61m from shortest 400m line

maths tells us that is extra distance of

1.61 * pi =

5.05m

learn some maths you idiot

Only you could convert a 12.6 curve into 11.8

idiot you can't even do simple arithmetic

200m + extra distance of 5m = 205m

this is run in 1'45.0 - 1'20.0 = 25.0s

therefore 200m run in

25.0 * ( 200/205 ) = 24.4s

therefore if last 100m run in 12.6s, curve, if run in lane 1 at 400m line is

24.4 - 12.6 =

11.8s

Deanouk wrote:He "didn't go in for slow races"!? Are you serious? Did he have a crystal ball and know what the time of the race would be before he ran them? LOL

You can waffle all you like, but you still HAVEN'T produced a single sub 12.0 last 100s from all these athletes.

moron

what part of 44.59 speed does your peabrain not comprehend

he didn't go in for slow races

he even won ncaa in 1'44.70

every major race he ran he ran it hard - not waiting around for pathetic 1'50 pace at 700m then kicking

as for caballo, your numbskull not understand 44.26 low altitude wr ???

Ventolin, you don't get the argument. The argument is not that there is no other athlete who could possibly (and you haven't shown real example) finish like that. It goes to show something about the state of fitness Sebastian Coe was in as he produced that kicks.

you have comprehension issues

caballo didn't hang about running 1'50 pace for 700m & then kick in a last 100 in his big races

his great races in '76 for gold & epic match with boit in '77 were brutal affairs of 1'43.50 & 1'44.04, not pedestrian affairs

neither did everett go in for sit'n'kick - he gave 100% of what he had from the gun in every big race in his peak years

as for coe, i've just shown that kip in 1'42.87 shape coud run the comparable fast last 200 that coe exhibited in his 800 races in '81 after his wr

it shows that a ~ 1'43.0 guy with 46+ speed coud produce those finishes

get that into your numbskull