SUMMER OF ANTONIO

TomBefore some my answer to your question you shall be aware of 2 points.One is that the António´s Summer isn´t my my main training method precisely. It contains some of my training principles, but it´s a peculiar aspect of my training that I did imagine for someone that wants to keep on training during the summer months.My Antonio´s summer training isn´t my main training method and it´s not target for cross runs or track runs whatever. It´s one special training,summer training with no specific event goal. On the first post of this thread I write “Just one my provocative training schedule for those of you that like this kind of Danny Henderson´s short rest interval training with the “Summer of Antonio” title, inspired in the name of Summer of Malmo”.Therefore if you want to know something more of my training details, you need to read something more,Another point you need to consider ad that I always try to advice, is the need of training individualization “persona-per-persona”. Here I just say what are training principles. Face to face with individual cases I might build different schedules. Some my runners, when they start to be coached by me they are surprised because early they read my training ideas and they did imagine what would be my training, the training I will put on them. Then they are surprised to what I prescribe, that despite doesn´t contradict my training method, by the need fo training individualization i prescribe something different they expect.Now the answer to your questions.

Normally I use to keep the same number of repetitions while longer each set, until the workout that the runner isn´t no more able to run faster than his distance event race pace. Normally with so short and active intervals like 100m ehead on track in about 40-45secs recovery I don´t prescribe more than 10 sets.

One example for your 5k runner example.

The workout sequence might be: 10X200m; followed by 10X250m; then 10X300m, then followed by 10X400m; followed by 10X500m….wait, my experience teach me that in very rare cases the 5k runner is able to run longer workout than 10X500m with 40-45secs recovery 100m ahead on track and keep on or faster his 5k pace. 10X600m ???? Hum…I doubt !

Then what´s the solution, continue to do the reverse sequence or why not introduce training by set groups like 5X600m+5X200m all with rec=100m/40-45secs. I guess that in this case he can resist because the 600s are just 5 times. Another example 5X500m+3X300m+2X200m.

Yes. If the improve of aerobic power does consider the continous tempo run and not the short intervals it would be a good idea to progress from longer to shorter and faster. From LT runs to fast LT (max lass) to hard tempo. In this case the logic it´s the opposite of short intervals that tend to be faster than race pace to race pace. In the case of tempos, it tends to be slower than race pace to race pace.

However if the tempo run is considered a merely aerobic condition workout it´s always good to run more (volume) and try keep the pace. To try to keep the pace because since the distance grows its imposiible to keep the same pace.

But again, all depends of what´s the workout target. If the workout target it´s merely aerobic condition then try more; but if the workout target it´s one tempo run closer to race pace, the goal is speed up the pace while reduce the total distance/duration.

Phase 3, would be what would be the target goal event, the major percent and the major workout frequency should be specific workouts, what means long reps with long stand recovery race pace distance event determined.

Eventually in each 3-4 workouts only one is special, all the other 2-3 shall be specific distance event long reps.

Also it´s a good thing to introduce some short reps aftere the long distance specific workouts BUT short reps WITH LONG STAND RECOVERY IN THIS CASE of Phase 3.

Of course that Phase 3 for one 800m runner might means 3X600m or 3X500+2X100m/800m race pace, as the might mean 8X600m+2X200m 6X1000m or 5k race pace, for the 10k road runner might mean 5xMile+3X300m or 3-4X2000m+3X200m/10k race pace and for the HM runner 3-5X3000m/Hm race pace or the marathon runner it might mean 4-5X4000m/maratjon pace. Just examples that you might undersatand the kind of specific workouts i think about when i say to you about the interest of doing long reps with long interval during the Phase 3.

Antonio Cabral wrote:

J.O. wrote:

Improved neuro-muscular coordiation is what improved endurance in a runner who is already well trained.

Every kind of training stimulus does act in mutiple training zones and improves every system. Or do you think that race pace doesn´t stimulate the neuro-muscular system and enhance the runner biomechanics ? Yes it does.

However endurance training is what improves endurance and neuro-muscular training is what improves neuro-muscular coordination.

All training involves neuro-muscular coordination. Every move you make, every step you take, every smile you fake.

J.O. wrote:

All training involves neuro-muscular coordination. Every move you make, every step you take, every smile you fake.

Yes, but all training doesn't improve neuro-muscular coordination.

I am very keen to learn more about your training principles, however I have looked through all the threads that you have contributed to and this one appealed to me most because it is fairly simple. There is so much training info avilable sometimes I can be a bit overwhelmed with the information and be unsure what I should do.

I like this idea of training by set groups. I notice in the two examples that you give they both have 10 sets BUT they have different total distances.

e.g. 5X600m+5X200 = 4000m total distance BUT

5X500m+3X300m+2X200m = 3800m

Is there any reason for this? Is there any logic I can use as to how much total distance I should cover?

Would it not be better to do 5X600m+4X400+2X200m (5000m) as the distance covered is the same as the target race distance?

In phase 3 would it be better to start with longer reps at 10k pace and work down to 5k pace? e.g.

6X800m then 5X1000m then 4X1200m all at 10k pace then repeat the same three workouts but at 5k pace OR is it better to start at 5k pace but with shorter reps? e.g.

10X500m then 8X600m then 6X800m then 5X1000m then 4X1200m all at 5k pace

Thanks again for your time, I really do appreciate your help in educating me about training.

Regards

Tom

Set groups does something positive.

Set groups it´s not simply to justify the coach need as one famous and great runner said in one recent interview. The famous runner is Peter Snell, but I guess he misses something of training methodology understand or he would not say what he said. The problem is that for some opinion makers the fact that someone was a great runner that allows him to possess rich training knowledge to be a rich coach, when we know that the world best coaches never been top class runners or very rarely.

It´s not so bored, second you can run different groups at different paces what means you easier might run for example slower than race pace + race pace + speed/faster than race pace on the same workout.

But the groups does some miss of efficiency like it´s hard to pace control or pace management, what is not so hard if you run the same set distances like 10X600m.

I guess that If you are a quite inexperienced runner you should run out of groups, but if you are an experienced runner and be experienced or inexperience, if you want to build one workout run that able to different pace zones in the same workout, race pace or out of race pace, be fast or slow, whatever if you run by groups with different set distances this is more beneficial than sets of the same distance.

Don´t worry about that the workout be the same total distance.

If the workout target is SPECIAL, that means from distant pace (be slower or faster than race pace) to closer to race pace to what is named specific race pace the norm is different for 2 different cases.

1/SPECIAL workout INTERVALS FASTER THAN RACE PACE.

The training direction is from quality to quantity and the pace necessary decrease while increase the distance of each set and the total distance.

Therefore INCREASE THE DISTANCE OF EACH SET (while reduce the number of sets) if the SPECIAL workout goes from faster than race pace to race pace precisely also the workout goes from SPECIAL TO SPECIFIC.

- In this case the interval recovery depends of the runner type you are what means training individualization and it´s why early on i said that to define thios kind of special workouts is complex and you need coach skill, what some say that is "the art of coaching".

2/SPECIFIC RACE PACE INTERVAL WORKOUT

In this case the workout progresses from less repetitions (less sets) but longer set distance WHILE TRY TO KEEP ON THE RACE PACE EVENT.

In this case the interval recovery length shall be longer and quite passive.

I understand when you say it is hard to define these kinds of workouts because it depends on so many factors (type of runner, training experience, life stresses, available time, ability...) and this is the "art of coaching" HOWEVER I have no coach and it is in my nature to need some kind of plan at the beginning then adapt it depending on how I react to the workouts, therefore there must be some kind of guideline with these workouts. HOW MUCH do I increase the distance of each set? and HOW MUCH do I reduce the number of sets?

Again what set distance do I start with and how would it progress?

I think it would be best if I write my plan so far and then perhaps if you wouldn´t mind you could evaluate it and suggest any changes.

This is for 5K racing

Phase 1:

day 1: aerobic run

day 2: alternate in-out 60secs fartlek and 10-20secs hill reps

day 3: aerobic run

day 4: aerobic run

day 5: med. long run (1:30 with last 60mins @ marathon effort)

day 6: aerobic run

day 7: long run (2 hours)

Phase 2:

day 1: aerobic run

day 2: long reps @ RP with long stand/walk recovery

8X600m

then 6X800m

then 5X1000m

day 3: aerobic run

day 4: aerobic run

day 5: short intervals with active recovery @ 105%-110% RP

25X200m with 100m recs in 40-45secs

then 16X300m with 100m recs in 40-45secs

then 12X400m with 100m recs in 40-45secs

day 6: aerobic run

day 7: tempo run (1:30 with last 40mins @ 30K pace

then 1:30 with last 20mins @ 16K pace)

Phase 3:

day 1: aerobic run

day 2: long reps @ RP with long stand walk recovery

4X1200m

then 2X1600m+1X1000m+2X400m

then 3X1600m

day 3: aerobic run

day 4: aerobic run

day 5: short intervals @ 105% RP

10X500m with 100m recs in 40-45secs

then 4X600m+5X400m+3X200m with 100m recs in 40-45secs

then 6X600m+3X400m+1X200m with 100m recs in 40-45secs

day 6: aerobic run

day 7: tempo run (1:30 with last 20 @16K pace)

One other point. In the "Rui Silva training modulation" thread I noticed that workout 2 in the 1-2-3 model (short reps faster that target goal distance) evolves from short reps with incomplete recovery in early season to max pace short reps with full recovery in late season.

e.g. 3X(600m+400m+200m)/max pace (2-3mins in between sets) and 5-10mins in between set groups.

Would this workout progression also be appropriate for a 5k runner, and what types of speed endurance workouts would you recommend?

We are very lucky to have a coach with your knowledge contributing to these message boards so once again thankyou

TJ

I'm not Antonio and I don't intend to ruin this great thread. But TJ are you not planning to race at ? I ask because you've laid out all three training phases but there are no races at all. As a suggestion, you should at least race once per month even during phase one.

Your problem TJ is that you want to ask about YOUR training and that my Summer training it fits on your training plan and that my training would be validate by other different training that is Rui Silva training.

Things in building one training plan doesn´t work as that.

One more step further and you want to ask me how my training is tailed for what Kenenisa Bekele does in training. The training process is a whole, where each training unity is related with the other, it´s not done by tails each one coming from different parts, detached from each other.

One thing is my training methodology, that is nothing but one general norms based on my training principles, on my training concepts. Other thing it´s your individual training need, and other thing either is Rui Silva training need. Other thing is every other training method than my own. For example, I don´t agree with 2 hours long runs for a 5k goal as you schedule. My 5k runners don´t do more than 1h15min-1h30min, it´s the long one I use.

The training process done by is quite different than your training process. Eventually if I knew you I will not schedule no one of your training sessions, the one you present on your last post.

By the way. You name Rui Silva that is a 1:44.91/3:30.7/13:19.20/27:53 but he never did more than 1:30 run. António Leitão did 13:07 in 1982 and bronze in 5000m in 1884 – almost 30 years back and he told me that one day he tried to run more than 1 hour and after 1h15min “his legs did respond” – that´s not his legs for sure but it´s how he told me, and he give up. He never did more than 60min run in daily runs.

DocB wrote:

J.O. wrote:

All training involves neuro-muscular coordination. Every move you make, every step you take, every smile you fake.

Yes, but all training doesn't improve neuro-muscular coordination.

*******************************************************

It does if you do it right. Even with very slow running you can and should work on technique.

Ok, I can accept that you can't comment on my training plan because you don't know me.

BUT you do say that you have a "training methodology" and "training principles" and "training concepts". It is this that I am trying to understand.

Should I be training for all out speed? When? How?

Should I be training for speed endurance? When? How?

Should I be training for aerobic power? When? How?......

You created the "summer of Anonio" as a training "Plan" applicable to everyone and adaptable to most distances. What I am asking for is something specifically for 5k, with a little more variety/progression in the workouts. BUT I don't know how to do it. You say you wouldn't schedule any of the training sessions I provided. What would you schedule?

As ever, thanks for any info you can provide

TJ

but Leitao did doubles? What was his mileage?

I know you know my trianing quite perfect. You know so much about my training that i don´t imagine you as a young runner student.

You are a very experienced person with too much training understand.

Or don´t you know that i know that when you schedule 2hours weekend long runs in your training programme you did it just to be provocative because you know that i don´t use long runs in my program, excepet for the marathon or some exceptional cases if out of the norm.

You ask me

Should I be training for all out speed? When? How?

Should I be training for speed endurance? When? How?

Should I be training for aerobic power? When? How?...

But this is your task. It´s up to you to fit my training in your body, since you know best than me what´s is your training profile and what is your training target and among my program what you are able to run and what you don´t.

I only could answer your questions if i knew your personal profile, your trainig profile, your performance profile, your goal targets. As i don´t know quite enough of it, you are confined to read my training, and you are the one that shall build your training, not me. If i would build your schedule i would need to be your coach. I´m not your coach. Here on LR.com what i mostly do is debate training methodlogy, here i don´t build personal coach programs. Here i act as a methodolist, i don´t act as a real coach.

Hi Antonio:

Will you be in Malaga for the WMA?

I don't think that you will find him too near the running fraternity in Europe these days; read the post by Another 50yo Portuguese runner:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5358823&page=2

I like the concept of this program. When I first started at Hughson, I took over the training for a girl that was pretty good. Her previous coach had her on an off season program aimed at achieving 10:40 for 3200m. Basically, she did a lot of short reps with short rest at goal pace and the distance progressed as she gained fitness (200 then 400 then 800) Total volume of reps was always 3200m. I want to say the rest was 1:1 ratio, so I guess it wasn't that short by the time she got to 400 or 800. Anyway, the first meet she ran for me was 11:00 and by the end of the season she hit exactly 10:40. So, the concept of low volume, short fast work with short rest seems totally workable in the off season.

I'm hoping Antonio is still on this thread to take a look at a hypothetical summer for a group of 16-17 year old boys who have PB in the 2:05-2:10 range for 800, the 4:40-4:55 range for 1600, and the 10:20-10:40 range for 3200 (this is likely about the level that my top 7 boys will be at by the end of spring of 2019

Week 1 (June 3-9) Only easy running after 2 week break at the end of our track season

Week 2-4 (June 10-June 30) Increasing volume toward 50 mpw. Include 1 relaxed fartlek session and 1 hill sprint session

Week 5 (July 1-July 7) 20 min tempo on road, 8 x 100 @ 16-17 seconds with 45 second 100m recovery jog

Week 6 (July 8-July 14)) 3.2 mile tempo run on road, 8 x 200 @ 35-37 seconds with 45 second 100m recovery jog

Week 7 (July 15-July 21) 20 min tempo on road, 10x300 @ 59-60 seconds with 45 second 100m recovery jog

Week 8 (July 22-July 28) Training camp at 7000 feet, no access to track. Only high volume aerobic running and strides, maybe short hill repeats

Week 9 - 12 Repeat Weeks 6-8, only the paces would be at PR pace rather than a little slower than PR pace as was the case for weeks 6-8.

forgot to add that Week 6 and week 10 would be weeks with reduced volume to provide for a little recovery.

During week 12, we would probably do our first time trial of the season to get a good idea of where we are at.