Solinsky 5k = greatest energy output per unit time for distance running?

CrackyB wrote:

Just because you don't believe it's true doesn't mean you are right. Provide some evidence to support your case, and that can refute mine. I provided an example to refute your conclusion and you challenged that evidence on a belief. You must take your advice from the GOP.

What evidence? The burden of proof rests on your shoulders, not mine. You post hearsay and claim it is a fact, that is horeshit. Here I can do it too.

I know a guy who weighed 300 pounds and ran a 17:44. Prove me wrong.

haha YO wrote:

kent tekulve wrote:

You must really be a moron. I've done it myself when I was out of shape. I've also known others who have. What a talentless moron with no imagination you must be...

I'm not a moron, I'm a realist. Please post your race results as well as a picture of you from when you ran it since that will be the best way now to estimate your weight. Any random jackass can say they did it, put up or shut the f*** up.

No, you are irrefutably a moron. A realist would understand that 200 pound runners have broken 17 minutes for 5k. It is not that difficult if you have some talent and are a bigger built person, not the extremely ectormorphic runner. Plus, you must factor in height. Those of us with strapping builds can weigh 200 and with our massive engines can run away from little punks such as yourself. This is evolutionary adaptation and you are losing and not accepting it...

kent tekulve wrote:

No, you are irrefutably a moron. A realist would understand that 200 pound runners have broken 17 minutes for 5k. It is not that difficult if you have some talent and are a bigger built person, not the extremely ectormorphic runner. Plus, you must factor in height. Those of us with strapping builds can weigh 200 and with our massive engines can run away from little punks such as yourself. This is evolutionary adaptation and you are losing and not accepting it...

Results or shut the f*** up.

It has nothing to do with not wanting it to happen, it would be cool to hear about someone over 200 pounding out a 5k in the 16s. But the fact is that even if you are 6'3" at 200 pounds you are overweight. Fast runners don't usually let themselves become overweight and serious runners who are training will lose the weight. Look at Ben St. Lawrence, the guy is one of the most ridiculously talented people you will ever meet and at one time weighed pretty damn close to 200 if not over. He is documented as saying he could not run around the block when he weighed that much.

Sure, Solinsky could probably really let himself go and run sub 17. But that's not going to happen, I'm asking for results that have actually occured.

You are a certifiably idiot. St. Lawrence is a little guy. Of course, at 200 lbs, he is going to have a tough time jogging. Think about a bigger man. I have run sub 17 (which was a horrible time) at 200 lbs. It is really not that big of a deal, and your failure to grasp this rudimentary concept exposes you as a simpleton of the first order. I cannot prove to you that I weighed 200, but I know the truth. I was not proud of these results at 200 lbs, as the extra weight did dramatically slow me down, it was just due to overeating and minimal running, but of course I was still doing some training in a perfunctory manner.

certifiable...

This is a waste of time, as you don't have the intellectual horsepower to deal with the most elementary concepts. Now you're implying that you'd be orgasmic at the thought of a 200 pounder running sub 17. Well, if I'd known that people like you were out there, it would have been a bit disconcerting to know that I was having this impact...

I think you just posted the hearsay you are moaning about, that is simply not true. Even at his absolute fattest St Lawrence was destroying local fun runs, he may describe that as not being able to run around the block, that is only in comparison to where he is now. Ask the poor folk of Bathurst what happened when all the local fitness freaks lined up for their annual race, that's right, the giant fatty effortlessly cruised past them to win the McDonalds vouchers.

In fact St Lawrence finished 2nd in a 10000m race early in his comeback in 2006:-

31.25.96 Ben St.Lawrence N 2 Sydney 26-Oct

Paul McMullen.

not sure why you're still asking as I gave you those results several posts ago....but one more time, when i ran Mt sac (13:58), I was 190lbs. on a side note, Forrest Braden (formerly idaho?, now distance coach at ucla) is 6'3" and ran mid 28min and 13mid/high....he's 185+ for race weight, just b/c he's tall and prob has dense bones...kinda like ur brain.cheers, dude-

haha YO wrote:

kent tekulve wrote:

No, you are irrefutably a moron. A realist would understand that 200 pound runners have broken 17 minutes for 5k. It is not that difficult if you have some talent and are a bigger built person,.....

Results or shut the f*** up....... I'm asking for results that have actually occured.

I've run mid-16 for 5K a few times every summer since 2000, and I guarantee you that the majority of those times I weighed over 200.

When I do that again this June, I'll have someone shoot video of the entire race, I'll upload it to YouTube, and you can have fun disputing this.

Considering this is over two minutes slower than my PB, when I weighed 30 pounds less, it's completely plausible the "what-ifs" should Sol gain 20 or 30. "Guarantees" sure suck, don't they? If you want the place and time I'm running a 16 something 5,000 a few hours after I weigh myself and find I'm 204, let me know.

And hell, factor my age into this, and you'll be yelling "Guarantee" just like Charlie Sheen yells "Winning," and you'll be equally whacked.

A runner I race against named Ken Noll who runs for Alfred University is about 6'3" 215..(rough estimate but he's definitely over 200) & he's run 16:03 indoors. I guess he does insane weight training along w/ his running. I always tell his coach that I have no idea how he runs so fast..no one knows. natural talent I guess

Pic

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/60473_437496042405_532427405_5327889_2803821_n.jpg

His PR's

http://www.directathletics.com/athletes/track/2441886.html

Seriously? how do you figure a 200+ guy cant run a 16 min 5k?shut up & learn something...A runner I race against named Ken Noll who runs for Alfred University is about 6'3" 215..(rough estimate but he's definitely over 200) & he's run 16:03 indoors. I guess he does insane weight training along w/ his running. I always tell his coach that I have no idea how he runs so fast..no one knows. natural talent I guess

Pic

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/60473_437496042405_532427405_5327889_2803821_n.jpg

His PR's

http://www.directathletics.com/athletes/track/2441886.html

I personaly know Kenny Noll, he was on the x-country team and track team at Ichabod crane hogh school in ny with me backj in 05-06, he does weigh over 200 and is a very much a weight room type of guy.

Ichabod Crane High School in NY.(bad spelling on my part)

Assuming he's 200lbs, his 16:05 5k time yields 28.07, just slightly worse than Solinsky's.

I used 200lbs not because I don't believe you, but just for sake of argument.

If he weighed less his number would be lower, but if he weighed more it would of course be higher, maybe surpassing Solinsky's--for instance, if he really went 215lbs, it would be 30.44 Cal/min, well in excess of Solinsky's.

Talk about a heat engine.

I don't know about this guy's actual size, though, I question it based on his other numbers, in particular his absolutely crappy javelin, discus, and especially shot numbers.

Even without specific training, a 6'3"-215lb guy who is "basically a weight room type of guy" should be able to do much better than his throw PR's, which are very, VERY low. That is the only reason I'm skeptical about his mass, but I'm willing to entertain that he is above 200lbs.

I am humbled by his mile time, it sure beats my best!

I remember CU offensive lineman Heath Irwin showed up at a local 2-mile road race put on by the Boulder Roadrunners at altitude. He weighed in at 295 lbs. and ran 12:15 at 5400 feet. That is the winner right there.

Throwing the Javelin and discus and the Shot are not just about strength, its also about form, you could be the worlds strongest man but not be able to throw a shotput very far if you lack cordination and technique.

lucKY2b wrote:

Very interesting discussion, treating the body as essentially a heat engine. Just a couple of additional complicating factors:

1) Running isn't only about dissipating spent thermal energy, so this discussion is limited to the thermal exhaust side of the equation of state. Metabolic rates and the ability to dispose of biochemical "waste" also dictates energy consumption rates.

2) It is assumed, that we race at essentially the highest temperature that our bodies will allow us to function over the requisite distance, and that that temperature is the same for all individuals.

An additional point that needs to be considered with the heat issue is that a larger body mass will afford a greater capacity for heat storage without critically altering core temperature. Performing crude calculations from the stats posted by the OP, Solinsky's 5k performance would require an aerobic capacity in the mid to high 70's (ml/kg/min) and Bekele's WR 5k puts him around the 80 ml/kg/min. While impressive feats they are well within reasonable physiological limits. However, it's all theoretical at this point.

I don't want to read the whole thread to see if this has been addressed... But I don't accept the basic premise that Kg of mass equals calories burned for 1Km of distance. Can't remember the formula at the moment, but it has to do with mass over distance over time which affects the calories burned. I'm old school so I will use miles...

When I walk 1 mile in 16 minutes I burn about 128 calories. When I jog 1 mile in 10 mins, I burn about 192 calories, when I run 1 mile in 7:30, I burn about 178 calories. My point is that I get less efficient as I go from walking to running and more efficient as I move from running to running faster across the distance. However, I increase my calories per minute across the whole scale during the course of the distance.

OP may be right about Solinsky having greatest energy output, but not for the right reason in the post.

Cheers all

I don't know the finish times, but I do know that Carl Malone at 6'10"/270 used to run in some 10Ks in Utah in the summer during his playing days.

There are some old threads about Carl's distance running, but good luck finding them.