Watch Komen's 3000 video. He did not run 2:25 for the opening kilometer -- the rabbit did, and came through in 2:25.89. Komen was third in line. That was 2:26-mid, I would bet.
Watch Komen's 3000 video. He did not run 2:25 for the opening kilometer -- the rabbit did, and came through in 2:25.89. Komen was third in line. That was 2:26-mid, I would bet.
Danny Komen wrote:
The guy ran under 8 minutes for 2 miles twice for God sake. I know El G never really tried it but Geb sure as hell did and he was still 20 metres back each time.
Did Geb try it when he was in 3:31 indoor 1500m shape? Do you think he could have done it during that shape?
Not sure with which year it was, but didn't geb run 8:01-8:02 for the indoor 2? He might have been able to challenge Komen's record, but he still probably would have fallen a little short. El G could have potentially taken Komen's 2M WR (7:58), which is equally to about a 7:24/5 3k. Komen's 3k WR is equal to about 7:53 for 2M
One of my favorite training stories comes from Bob Kennedy, who as many of you know frequently trained with Komen. One workout they used to do was 1600, 1200, 800, and 400 with 200m recovery at essentially time trial effort. Kennedy ran 3:56, 2:55, 1:55, and 54 and wasn't even close to Komen in that workout. Anyone know what Komen ran for those splits? I wouldn't be surprised if it was like 3:53, 2:54, 1:53, 51.
ventolin^3 wrote:
watching the race, the actual 2'28/2'25 upset him visibly & like i said, if you had seen the race, you wouda known immediately at 2k that his mindset had been severely affected & there was little chance of the wr
The guy is a multiple time Olympic champion, holds some of the most unbelievable middle distance records and was one of the greatest champions to ever grace this sport and you are suggesting that he was so fragile mentally that being 1 or 2 seconds off "optimal" pace would mess with him that much? I put "optimal" in quotes because there is no proof as to what El G wanted or how he wanted to get there.
Think about it and go drink a PBR my good man.
i suggest you go watch sydney '00 with noah on his shoulder or 5k in '03 with cherono similarly stalking him after 3k & what the results were on each occasion
as for his ideal pace, find a 3'26 of his off a "slow" opening lap of 56+
shoe guy wrote:
One of my favorite training stories comes from Bob Kennedy, who as many of you know frequently trained with Komen. One workout they used to do was 1600, 1200, 800, and 400 with 200m recovery at essentially time trial effort. Kennedy ran 3:56, 2:55, 1:55, and 54 and wasn't even close to Komen in that workout. Anyone know what Komen ran for those splits? I wouldn't be surprised if it was like 3:53, 2:54, 1:53, 51.
It was from a duathlon.com article. Excerpt:
"Last year we did a session and it was 1600, 1200, 800, and 400, with 3 minutes between each interval, and it was myself, Daniel Komen, and Paul Koech, and the other top guys. And these are my times: I ran 3:57, 2:56, 1:55, and 55. And I was kind of in the middle of the pack. Komen ran about 3:54, 2:53, 1:54, and 55. Not many people would ever conceive of training at that speed."
shoe guy wrote:
One of my favorite training stories comes from Bob Kennedy, who as many of you know frequently trained with Komen. One workout they used to do was 1600, 1200, 800, and 400 with 200m recovery at essentially time trial effort..
No need to embellish.
Where is Komen now?
The Wikipedia page says that he "was still active in 2009", whatever that means.
Did he just disappear from the scene entirely, and if so, why?
well. wrote:
are we being realistic? wrote:I tend to agree with Malmo on this one. Komen had the right combination of 1500 speed and 5 k endurance. I think that if EL G felt he could get it, then he would have had many more attempts at it. After all, most of his races were set up paced affairs.
I'm surprised that no one has even questioned yet, whether these runs were all legitimate! Am I the only person who thinks all these 7:20's, 4:44's, sub 12:40's etc were done while using EPO? There was no test while these unbelievable times were being run, not until late 2000. And even after that the test was unreliable at best.
Since 2005, when I believe they changed the EPO test, only 1 person (Bekele- 7:25.79) has broken 7:28 for 3k, no one has broken 3:29, and only Bekele has broken 12:48 for 5000m. He ran a 12:40 in '05 at the age of 23, which is very young for a distance runner, and hasn't been within 8 seconds of that since. And at 2000m no one has run within 6 seconds of EL G's best .
So we have 6 full seasons where no one has run close to the WR for any of those distances. Oh to be a great middle distance runner in the late 90's.
Then why do they run the marathon so much faster now than in the 90s?
The Marathon has emerged from a race where top 5 & 10k runners would gravitate towards at the end of their careers, to a more popular blue ribboned event over the past 10 years or so. You get lots of young African talent coming straight to the event at 18, 19 or so. That just didn't happen 10 years or more ago.
The Marathon also didn't have the same cache or financial rewards in the 90's as it does now. A top runner might be able to run 4 or 5 top 5000m at WR pace in a summer season, but that isn't the case for a Marathon runner. You've also got to look at the fact that all courses are different.
The depth of talent running the 1500 and 5 k hasn't really changed since the late 90's, in the Marathon it has increased enormously.
Do Marathon events outside the major champs test for PEDs and EPO? I'm not sure. If they don't, then that could explain more.
blah yah yah wrote:Did Geb try it when he was in 3:31 indoor 1500m shape? Do you think he could have done it during that shape?
2 3:31.76i Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1r2 Stuttgart 01.02.1998
5 3:32.39i Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 2rA Stuttgart 02.02.1997
3 8:01.08 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Hengelo 31.05.1997
4 8:01.72 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 London 07.08.1999
5 8:01.86 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Hengelo 30.05.1999
2 8:04.69i Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Birmingham 21.02.2003
It's all speculation I guess.
What Geb's 3:31 indoors is worth outdoors?
In the commentary during Komen's 7:20, they mention that he tried for the WR a couple weeks prior and ran 7:25.
So why is it a stretch that there is at least a reasonable chance that ElG could have seriously threatened the WR if he had tried one or two more times after he ran the 7:20.
After all, no one has ran a WR until they do ...
are we being realistic? wrote:
Do Marathon events outside the major champs test for PEDs and EPO? I'm not sure. If they don't, then that could explain more.
Regulation 5.2 for all IAAF Road Race Label Events.
what is worth? wrote:What Geb's 3:31 indoors is worth outdoors?
based off JRM's work ( prof of rocket science & inventor of wind-altitude calculator )
~ 3'30.3
kips' 1'42i is ~ 1'41.8
komen's 7'24i is ~ 7'22.5
kennster's 12'49i is ~ 12'45
geb did run a 7'26.1i ( i don't remember the splits ), which is worth ~ 7'23.5
geb's indoor 3k pb is worth in the 7'23s, but people for whatever reason tend to ignore this performance & go with his outdoor 7'25pb
ventolin^3 wrote:
what is worth? wrote:What Geb's 3:31 indoors is worth outdoors?based off JRM's work ( prof of rocket science & inventor of wind-altitude calculator )
~ 3'30.3
kips' 1'42i is ~ 1'41.8
komen's 7'24i is ~ 7'22.5
kennster's 12'49i is ~ 12'45
geb did run a 7'26.1i ( i don't remember the splits ), which is worth ~ 7'23.5
geb's indoor 3k pb is worth in the 7'23s, but people for whatever reason tend to ignore this performance & go with his outdoor 7'25pb
Yes, and all (Bekele's 5k apart) were run in the late 90's. Add salt accordingly.
oh please wrote:
In the commentary during Komen's 7:20, they mention that he tried for the WR a couple weeks prior and ran 7:25.
So why is it a stretch that there is at least a reasonable chance that ElG could have seriously threatened the WR if he had tried one or two more times after he ran the 7:20.
After all, no one has ran a WR until they do ...
In the commentary for that same video, it also said that he didn't even know what the exact time of Morceli's WR was. After he found out he was only within 0.05 seconds of it, i'm sure he wanted to obliterate it because he was likely holding back a bit during his 7:25, as this 7:20 showed.
The fact of the matter is that El G tried and probably didn't try again because he just didn't think he could do it. He hit 2k at the exact pace that Komen did and faded a bit the last 1k. It is pretty damn hard to run 2:26.5 per km for a 3k, which is why this record has stood for so long and will most likely continue to stay for some time.
shoe guy wrote:
...
The fact of the matter is that El G tried and probably didn't try again because he just didn't think he could do it. He hit 2k at the exact pace that Komen did and faded a bit the last 1k. It is pretty damn hard to run 2:26.5 per km for a 3k, which is why this record has stood for so long and will most likely continue to stay for some time.
I definitely agree with your last sentence, not so much the first. It could have simply been the fact that his schedule didn't allow him to take another shot. It's not like he was worlds away. In fact it appears his 4:44 2k was just 4 days later.
malmo wrote:
.....There is only one 3:29/12:39 human being to ever walk the planet, and he is Daniel Komen....
Moreover, Komen accomplished these times within the same week (8-16-97 and 8-22-97).
That was my main point all along -- that you need to be in 3:30/12:40 shape at the same time (or within a couple of months) if you are going to get that 3000 record.