Obamacare ruled Unconstitutional

I'm surprised by some of the arguments people have made here.

First, there are the people who say that what a Federal judge in Florida has said is naturally gospel truth--because they agree with it. If people were honest here they would admit that this is a new argument against the government's power in the Constitution and that until the issue is resolved by the Supreme Court there is a lot of room for reasonable disagreement. When the Court does decide there will still be room for reasonable disagreement, just less. Nobody here is a constitutional scholar (except for Chemerinsky who literally wrote the book on Con Law but he was only cited in a youtube video).

Personally, I think that Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce (and that has been interpreted very broadly thanks to the last time people cried foul about the government trying to help people). Because Americans end up paying for heath care whether they pay for it up front or not means that Congress is just regulating when people pay for it and therefore constitutional. There are plenty who disagree with that (including 2 Federal judges).

To clarify, a speeding ticket is a criminal sanction--not civil. And if you really break the speed limit (by 25 mph or more in CO) you can be arrested on the spot.

Perhaps the craziest thing I've seen here that people seem to take seriously (so excluding the terrorism stuff and the calling requirements for car insurance unconstitutional or saying heath care is redistributing the wealth) is the free market stuff). Forcing doctors to help people is neither slavery or extortion. I think it is called the hippocratic oath. Even if that doesn't quite fit by becoming a doctor you accept certain responsibilities--like not letting people die. In some states (New York) it is a crime for anyone to not help a victim of a crime (watch the last episode of Seinfeld or I'll look up a real citation). There are instances where one has a duty to act.

But even if that wasn't true, letting the free market handle health insurance is absurd. How much should one pay for a heart transplant? How much shopping around can one do for the best price when they are in a car crash or have a stroke? The fundamental premise of the free-market is that people can make rational decisions like those. But there are a lot of cases when you really need health care but cannot make the rational choice based on price and availability. Health care cannot be really governed by the free-market and I am stupefied that people here actually seem to think that it could.

Lets graduate 200,000 more doctors and then prices will come down.

¿ wrote:

The fundamental premise of the free-market is that people can make rational decisions like those.

No. The fundamental premise of free market capitalism is that all men have an inalienable moral right to be free from government coercion in all areas of their lives, including healthcare. That means that doctors have the right to charge patients whatever amount they want and to refuse treatment to anyone they want, for whatever reason they want. Patients have the right to purchase health insurance or to refrain from doing so. Insurance companies have the right to refuse coverage to anyone they want, for whatever reason they want. Neither the government nor "society" have any right to interfere with the private choices of private individuals in any way. The fact that you disagree with free markets does not give you the right to force your ideology on those who disagree with out. YOU have NO RIGHT to ANYTHING other than your own life and money.

It's un-patriotic to go against a stronger defense in this time of war. The American people must be healthy to fight for their lives against foreign attacks. That KKK judge should be impeached.

DontFeedTheTroll wrote:

Funny how the Republicans were all in favor of it back when it was their idea. Not a peep about constitutionality then.

Is it funny that the democrats were against the plan when it wasn't their idea?

There was no war then. Now we have to pull together to make America stronger to defend Israel from Islamo Facism. The war has been 9 years. With the collapse of our friends in Iraq, Afghanistan, Tunisia, and Egypt, and coming Iranian tacnukes, we will be under attack until the year 2500. America must have it's citizenry healthy and strong to fight and destroy the Muslims. God Bless America.

hey, why don't we rule public school unconstitutional while we're at it, and anything else that taxes pay for that isn't explicitly called for in the constitution, which is probably a lot of things.

that judge is an idiot.

Tell that to the states that now require you to buy auto insurance...

idiots wrote:

hey, why don't we rule public school unconstitutional while we're at it, and anything else that taxes pay for that isn't explicitly called for in the constitution, which is probably a lot of things.

that judge is an idiot.

Public schools are totally unconstitutional and should be abolished.

Quite a few people are against public school, what is your point?

You guys DO realize that the rest of the civilized world manages to provide it's citizens with the kind of healthcare that your President is proposing?

Outside the US, iits entirely normal for Governments to supply universal healthcare.

Like your bizarre fondness for guns and evangelical Christianity, I guess its just one of those things that makes the US unique.

But honestly guys: revamping your healthcare system to one that actually works for most of your citizens won't make the sky fall down.

The Tea Pantyers never join the military. They are so effing selfish. They don't care about Americans being prepared to fight against terrorist attacks.

idiots wrote:

hey, why don't we rule public school unconstitutional while we're at it, and anything else that taxes pay for that isn't explicitly called for in the constitution, which is probably a lot of things.

that judge is an idiot.

Public education is included in the constitution of some states, even if it isn't mentioned directly in the US constitution.

Really??? wrote:

I COMPLETELY AGREE! This bill is completely unconstitutional and needs to be removed.

It's not a bill, it's a LAW.

rrrffsdsdd wrote:

doctors have no right to refuse health care to those who can't afford it

that is tantamount to murder

That's ridiculous. Doctors can and do refuse health care to people who can't pay all the time. They just are not allowed to do so legally in an emergency room.

¿ wrote:

Forcing doctors to help people is neither slavery or extortion. I think it is called the hippocratic oath. Even if that doesn't quite fit by becoming a doctor you accept certain responsibilities--like not letting people die. In some states (New York) it is a crime for anyone to not help a victim of a crime (watch the last episode of Seinfeld or I'll look up a real citation). There are instances where one has a duty to act.

I can't believe I keep having to respond to this point. The hippocratic oath is nothing but a ceremonial part of medical school graduation. It imposes no legal burden on anybody. Doctors can and do refuse care to people who can't pay for it all the time. They are just not legally allowed to do so in the emergency room (even that is not quite technically accurate, they can refuse care for something that is not life-threatening).

I would like to see the citation that makes it a crime to not help a crime victim. I would like to know how many people have been prosecuted under that law. How many doctors?

random a hole wrote:

instead of explaining how he did the same thing (mandated health ins) in Mass.

themanontherun wrote:

Is an explanation required because he did it and is now fighting against it, or is one required because when they tried it there it was a massive failure that only one quarter of the state population felt was successful?

Actually the Massachusetts law has been hugely successful. Romney did good.

eb white wrote:

if obama really were concerned with trying to fix the system, he would have addressed at least some of the enormous problems with it (eg, tort reform or allowing insurance companies to operate outside of a single state).

aett wrote:

Tort reform sounds great, but it is a pretty small cost of healthcare.

Whenever someone references tort reform as an "enormous problem" I know they have no clue. Please consider "eb white" to be uniformed on the subject of health care reform.

Amazed wrote:

You guys DO realize that the rest of the civilized world manages to provide it's citizens with the kind of healthcare that your President is proposing?

Outside the US, iits entirely normal for Governments to supply universal healthcare.

Like your bizarre fondness for guns and evangelical Christianity, I guess its just one of those things that makes the US unique.

But honestly guys: revamping your healthcare system to one that actually works for most of your citizens won't make the sky fall down.

have you talked to someone who actually has to use the health are you praise so much? it sucks across the board. how long do you think it takes to get an mri in canada? how long do you think it takes to get the same mri in the usa? if all of the health care systems in other countries are so great, how come you never hear of americans flying off to other countries to get treated but people fly here from all over the world to get treated? our system is far too expensive but it provides the best care.