Is Joseph Ebuya 2011 form nearing the form of 2002-2006 Kenenisa Bekele's?

you are talking nonsense

i saw everyone of his top races & am well aware of his talent

you are making up 49s speed with nothing but a guess

being generous & giving him 3'45.0 ( probably shoudn't be offered better than 3'45.5 )

lets see, 3'45.0 with various 400s

55.00 ->1'51.0 , 3'29.6 , 7'02.6 , 11'48.5 , 23'48.4

54.00 ->1'50.0 , 3'29.4 , 7'05.9 , 11'58.7 , 24'21.2

53.00 ->1'49.0 , 3'29.2 , 7'09.3 , 12'08.8 , 24'54.0

52.00 ->1'48.0 , 3'29.0 , 7'12.6 , 12'19.0 , 25'26.8

51.00 ->1'46.9 , 3'28.8 , 7'16.0 , 12'29.2 , 25'59.6

all this shows us is that it is not feasible to run 3'45.0 off anything slower than 51.0, but the initial ridiculous times at 55.0 are slowly starting to evolve into recognisable 3 - 10k times

now, for cutting edge :

50.75 ->1'46.7 , 3'28.8 , 7'16.8 , 12'31.7 , 26'07.8

50.50 ->1'46.4 , 3'28.7 , 7'17.7 , 12'34.3 , 26'16.0

50.25 ->1'46.2 , 3'28.7 , 7'18.5 , 12'36.8 , 26'24.2

50.00 ->1'45.9 , 3'28.6 , 7'19.3 , 12'39.4 , 26'32.4

above shows it is perfectly possible for a 3'45.0 guy to run it off 50.00(+) speed

it also shows komen at his peak, if he coud run a 10k as good as his 3k/5k woudn't have done better than about 26'26 - 26'28

Here is where you make no sense. Look at your last line of figures. They make some sense, except for one glaring problem...I do believe Komen was probably capable of 1:45.9 and 3:28.6 at the height of his powers, maybe even 26:32. But to run 1:45.9, you cannot be only a 50 flat 400 runner. I do not believe it is possible. Let's say you run a typical 1:45.9, by which I mean you'd probably split 52 and 53.9. You'd be too close to your maximum in the first 400. This makes no sense...He'd have to be capable of running under 50 for 400 meters...

no

you are assuming a 1'45.9 woud be run as speed based 800 guys do with standard ~ 2.0s splits

a middle distance guy woud run it off more like 1.0 - 1.5s as they have better endurance than usual 800 guys ( but who who are obviously faster over 800 using 45/46/47speed )

1'45.9 off 1.5s differential -> 52.2/53.7

1'45.9 off 1.0s differential -> 52.45/53.45

last line shows ~ 1.5s difference from open 400 speed

this is perfectly possible : kip, with much more speed & lesser over-distance endurance split 48.3 in his 1'41.2

if he was 1.5s from open ability -> 46.8 for that

& he held on for 1'41.2wr

( more realistically kip probably ran about 2s off his open 400 ability rather than 1.5s, but it shows you can run 1.5 - 2.0s off your open 400 & hold on )

for close to even split 800s, look up borza'1'42.4 & cram's 1'43.2 & ryun ran a 1'44.3wr of -ve splits

Komen could have gone 26.05-26.10.

Well, you're stretching it here, ventolin. Kipketer did not split 48.3 and hold on...he faded...he ran 48.3 and then what...52.9? So this is a 4.6 gap, meaning it is misleading to use the 48.3. That notwithstanding, Kipketer likely was capable of running 45.7 or so, meaning he split 2.6 seconds slower, and then faded to 52.9, which is 1:45.8 pace....as for your argument regarding split differential, this is an individual thing and not directly correlated to long distance ability, as you've pointed out with Borza, etc.

if you hadn't noticed, kip smashed the wr with that 1'41.2 by 1/2secnothing "misleading" about running a huge wryou are assuming kip coud run 45.7, his pb was 46.85on that basis, he ran within 1.5s of his pb & still held on to smash the wr by 1/2s

as for your argument regarding split differential, this is an individual thing and not directly correlated to long distance ability

only a moron of a 5k runner woud try to go out in close to 50s & try to hold on

their superior endurance dictates they have to run as close to even splits as possible if they were to excel in an elite 800 race :

you are running against guys with 45/46 speed clocking 50s

you cannot dare to attempt to follow them to the bell if you have only 50s speed

ventolin^3 wrote:

if you hadn't noticed, kip smashed the wr with that 1'41.2 by 1/2sec

nothing "misleading" about running a huge wr

you are assuming kip coud run 45.7, his pb was 46.85

on that basis, he ran within 1.5s of his pb & still held on to smash the wr by 1/2s

you are running against guys with 45/46 speed clocking 50s

You can't have it both ways. You cannot say that Kipketer's pb was 46.85 and use that as a measuring stick when you know damn well he could have run faster than that, and even if you didn't know it, that never stops you from giving people credit for all kinds of nonsense that makes my imputing 45.7 to him to appear completely warranted.

Later, you write "you are running against guys with 45/46 speed," and surely you recognize that Kipketer was one of those with the 45xx speed, as he was not likely much slower than Rudisha, and Rudisha at his peak can probably run 45.3 or so. The reason why your choice of 48.3 was misleading was because it provided an unusual gap in terms of splits, which served your purposes but was not the norm...

no

choice of 48.3 was perfectly justified

IT WAS A WR

if you think ignoring splits in a wr is misleading, then you are talking nonsense

& as far as kip's 400pb, you have no idea what it might have been in '97

he was listed as 46.8 from '94

for all we know, he may have done tremendous endurance work in '96/'97 & it's possible his 400 ability may have even drifted out to 47+ by '97 in order to accomodate the increased time spent on endurance work & he may have well been in the 1.5s range of his then current 400 ability with that 48.3

you have ignored borza & cram as examples of elite 800 guys running off close to even pace

I'm done arguing with you, as you are not intellectually honest, and you are also stupid....You posit that Kipketer might not have been able to break 47 for 400 in 1997? You're a laughingstock. Kipketer was a speedster like Rudisha. Rudisha ran 45.5 last winter in Australia. Kipketer could have come very close to the same time. What a moron you are.

f***ing idiot

you clearly are too stoopid to contemplate the full possibilities

the assertion that kip was a "speedster" is drivel with only a listed 46.8pb - the same ballpark pb of majority of elite 800 guys

you are too much of a moron to consider that all the endurance work to get to 1'41 may have blunted whatever speed he had & even drifted it out to low-47s

therefore we have a scenario :

a low-47 guy goes out in 48.3, within 1s off his open 400 ability finds it very hard to hang on as he's run so close to his open 400 pb, splits 4.6s slower, but end result is still a wr by 1/2s

you clearly haven't the brain to dissociate method & result

& kip is NOT rudy, same as he isn't coe or cruz or caballo & whatever pb rudy has has no bearing on kip unless they are identical twins

Ventolin, you are a complete moron. MAPIV is right. IF Kipketer could only run 47.2, for example, and then ran 1:41.11, he would have been capable of 3:25. You are so stupid it makes my head hurt.

moron

the concept of "best distance" is obviously beyond your peabrain

cruz coud run 1'41.7 & coudn't run better than 2'14 for the 1k

he shouda at least run mid/high-2'12 off his 1'41.7 but coudn't even crack 2'14

kip's best distance may not have been anything significantly more than 800

think before you post idiot

Ventolin wrote on March 4, 2010:

kip, i'd suggest wouda been more like mid-44s

his 1'41.2wr ( zurich ) off 48.5/52.7 -> even-pace of 1'40.2

in comparison, coe's 1'41.7wr off 49.5/52.2 -> 1'41.3

we know coe musta been a 45+ guy around then & obviously had far better over-distance endurance than kip

therefore, for kip to produce an 800m which was intrinsically >1s better, means he musta been helluva lot faster than 45+

if he'd run a few 400s in that zurich form, he'd almost certainly have got into mid-44s

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3434663&page=1#ixzz1AupcUnCb

You are an idiot, ventolin, and you have been hoisted on your own petard, you retard...Last March ou were arguing that Kipketer would "certainly have got in mid-44s," and NOW you're arguing he maybe couldn't break 47? What a hypocritical, disingenuous abacus molesting imbecile...

Ventolin wrote last March in that same thread right after Rudisha's 45.50:

at present, i'm sceptical if rudy has anything more than fractional better 400 speed than those guys ( the kip that split 48.5 on the way to 1'41.2wr had to be in 45-flat or better shape in order to have enough reserve for the 2nd lap after that suicidal opening )

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=3441848&thread=3434663#ixzz1AusJrjjt

Give up, moron? You have been proven to be an imbecile who is intellectually dishonest and will argue anything with no integrity or coherence whatsoever...

moron

you clearly are too stoopid to consider re-examination

re-examination suggests the stated scenario from before may have been flawed

kip ran no significant races other than 800m in '96/'97, so no idea of his 400 or 1k ability in those years

in '97 he left no race to a tactical affair

if he had that blazing 400 speed in athens '97 he couda easily coasted around for 600/700m & blasted a ~ 12s kick in last 100 or mid-24 last 200 to win by still proverbial mile

instead, he ran it solo gun-to-tape

why ?

he coudn't break wr solo, so why brutal flat-out effort ?

perhaps he didn't have the blazing 400 speed to leave it to a last 100m or 200m sprint & guarantee the win

if he had ~ 47s speed he coudn't leave it to last 100 or 200m in a tactical race & had to run it hard from the gun

do some thinking idiot

fff wrote:

Komen could have gone 26.05-26.10.

What's the rationale fff? Kenny has run 26:17 off a 12:37 (2s faster than Komen's 5k).

GlobalView wrote:

fff wrote:

Komen could have gone 26.05-26.10.

What's the rationale fff? Kenny has run 26:17 off a 12:37 (2s faster than Komen's 5k).

Isn't it obvious? Komen could only run the 400 in 54, so he needed all sorts of endurance to run 3:29. Actually 26:05 may be a little slow!

MAPIV wrote:

...You have been proven to be an imbecile who is intellectually dishonest and will argue anything with no integrity or coherence whatsoever...

So?

Ventolin is an idiot. Everyone knows it so just ignore him. Intellectually he's a midget.