The real question is, how do Constitutional fundamentalists still deify these men who were oblivious to some of the moral imperatives of the next century?
The real question is, how do Constitutional fundamentalists still deify these men who were oblivious to some of the moral imperatives of the next century?
I'm sure you people realize that the US has more slaves today (11 Million) in 2011 than it did in 1861 (5 Million).
11 Million Palestinians are held by US coloniaiists in Palestine, and surrogates in Jordan and Eqypt.
The institution of Slavery is stronger today in the United States that every before.
That's a part of the great challenges we face as a nation today.
I.E. aligning our foreign policy bureaucrats with our Constitutional values as a nation.
Surely our values as a people are not reflected in our genocidal and racist foreign policy.
Perhaps a fundamental change in the structure of the State Department and Defense Department is store.
if you work for someone else, you are a slave.
I stand corrected, Mr. Obvious, Whitherspoon was the only active minister. There were, I believe 3 others who were former clergy. Regardless, the point I was trying to make was that only a minority of them were slave holders.
papa dont preach wrote:
if you work for someone else, you are a slave.
Say more.
What if you don't work for an individual but you work for a company...
papa dont preach wrote:
if you work for someone else, you are a slave.
.....and you are a major share holder in that company.
The bible is just like the Rorschach Test. People project what they want to see in it. Slavery/antislavery its all in there. Look hard and you will find the "biblical proof" that you want to find.
The New UncleB wrote:
Do you people not realize that the Bible had slaves in it? Slavery was not only a real concept in bible, it was accepted then too. Why would the "clergy" have had a problem with it? Equality and human rights are new concepts people...don't try to superimpose them into scripture. It's just too anachronistic and a poor attempt at revisionist history. Does that mean it's right? No. But, to pretend like Christians should not have done it ignores the Bible itself.
Old track coach 27 wrote:
I stand corrected, Mr. Obvious, Whitherspoon was the only active minister. There were, I believe 3 others who were former clergy. Regardless, the point I was trying to make was that only a minority of them were slave holders.
Lyman Hall of Georgia had been booted out of the ministry for some sort of "moral indiscretion." Two others William Williams and Robert Payne, undertook beginning theological studies but neither ever served as a clergy.
About 1/3 of the signers were slave owners, including Ben Franklin, who owned two house servants/slaves. A few others were involved in slavery through owning and financing slave trading vessels.
Well they began by being traitors to their original country - England, followed up by murdering the Native Americans. So, looks like consistent behavior to me
It's striking that slavery was abolished in little more than a half century, given that it was so woven into the economy.
Even in the 1860's pro slave Democrats had majorities in both House & Senate, and a Constitutional Amendment to abolish slavery would have been impossible with 15 of 34 states being slave states. (3/4 ratification required).
It seems likely that we will muddle along with our war on drugs & attendant record levels of imprisonment much longer than they did with slavery.
slavery is still a major u.s. institution and is growing stronger with the theft of lands in east jersusalem and west bank. the u.s. pays for nazi-jews to enslave white muslims in nazi-jew operated death camps. it's up to 6,000,000 white muslim slaves now held by nazi-jews, more than the south ever held.
The Nazi Colonialists launched another attack on their very own biologically identical Semite people of Christian and Islamic faiths imprisoned in Gaza today. The U.N. should dispatch troops to govern Palestine and restore democracy and the rule of law.
Conundrum wrote:
Slavery/antislavery its all in there.
REAL Conundrum - How could africans enslave africans???
One could argue that they were just ignorant, dirty, backwards savages, but then how can continue it today? Slavery alive and well in Afrcia.
How can whites enslave whites ? Israel and the United States have enslaved 7 Million semitic Muslims for 70 years now.
papa dont preach wrote:
if you work for someone else, you are a slave.
I see. So if you are not a lone hunter/gatherer you are a slave.
Very good logic there mate. Carry on.
Political Philosophy wrote:
Conundrum wrote:And still believe in slavery?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Many of them didn't believe in slavery you prick. Slavery was in place throughout the world for thousands of years before the signing of the DoI. The founding of America was a radical experiment in freedom which eventually led to the abolition of slavery for the first time in history. But intellectual inertia is takes generations to overcome, so it didn't happen overnight. It's worth pointing out that the founders who were most opposed to slavery (Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, George Washingotn, Benjamin Franklin, etc. were decidedly of the STRICT LIMITED GOVERNMENT philosophy who advocated a constitutional REPUBLIC form of government.
It was the British who first abolished slavery, ironically american slaves would have been freed sooner had it not been for American independance.
Also Thomas Jefferson was a huge supporter of slavery despite some of his earlier writings indicating that he wasn't. He probably did more to maintain slavery than any other American.
Phil. wrote:
Political Philosophy wrote:Many of them didn't believe in slavery you prick. Slavery was in place throughout the world for thousands of years before the signing of the DoI. The founding of America was a radical experiment in freedom which eventually led to the abolition of slavery for the first time in history. But intellectual inertia is takes generations to overcome, so it didn't happen overnight. It's worth pointing out that the founders who were most opposed to slavery (Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, George Washingotn, Benjamin Franklin, etc. were decidedly of the STRICT LIMITED GOVERNMENT philosophy who advocated a constitutional REPUBLIC form of government.
It was the British who first abolished slavery, ironically american slaves would have been freed sooner had it not been for American independance.
It was the British who first abolished slavery, ironically american slaves would have been freed sooner had it not been for American independanceI don't believe that. The English still illegally occupy Ireland and participate in US imperialism in the Middle East. The English are tagalongs enjoying the smelly farts of the USA.
If it were today, they'd use Sharpies (TM).
Here's another irony that gets me...
Slavery was of course common in antiquity, but had been done away with in Christendom by around 1000 AD. It was re-introduced in the 1440's, when the Portuguese started sugar plantations on islands off the coast of Africa.
The slaves came from existing slave trade, which was run by Muslims. And that's where the irony comes in. 500 years later, people like Farrakhan turned to--what else--Islam. And Pres. Obama's church famously issued a man of the year award to Louie F. Now that is history with a twist.