Vikings brought an Indian woman to Iceland.

To jfaf;dsajfa;sjf

Take the best classical musician ever (excluding Wynton Marsalis) and have him try to improvise a solo on the "Giant Steps" chord progression and compare it to John Coltrane doing the same. Or compare the same classical musician vs. Charlie Parker burning on "Cherokee" and tell me black people are inferior. Itzhak Perlman tried improvising on much simpler chord structures and the results were pitiful. Do you think Michael Jordan or Dr. J. could conceive the moves that they did without superior brains?

Coltrane and Monk playing the shit out of "Trinkle Tinkle in the late 1950s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0XLjJXUO4o

Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie destroying "Ko Ko" (same chords as "Cherokee") in 1947:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_ZajJd-1kY

You must be white cause you are not winning me over.

SlowFatMaster wrote:

To jfaf;dsajfa;sjf

Take the best classical musician ever (excluding Wynton Marsalis) and have him try to improvise a solo on the "Giant Steps" chord progression and compare it to John Coltrane doing the same. Or compare the same classical musician vs. Charlie Parker burning on "Cherokee" and tell me black people are inferior. Itzhak Perlman tried improvising on much simpler chord structures and the results were pitiful. Do you think Michael Jordan or Dr. J. could conceive the moves that they did without superior brains?

Coltrane and Monk playing the shit out of "Trinkle Tinkle in the late 1950s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0XLjJXUO4o

Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie destroying "Ko Ko" (same chords as "Cherokee") in 1947:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_ZajJd-1kY

You must be hearing impaired or otherwise impaired, because the music speaks for itself.

I think that most of us can agree that some of our early ancestors left Africa 60-100K years ago. Those that did leave faced new intellectual challenges and continued to evolve and became modern humans. Those that stayed behind, today's Africans, are essentially unchanged from the time of that mass migration. This explains that stubborn IQ gap that liberals love to hate.

Forgive me for my ignorance of the flora/fauna of ancient Africa. I must have missed class that day.

Your theory seems to be that cultures will only "rise" so far as the environment allows or dictates. You cite the indigenous Africans and Australians as examples.

How do the Native Americans fit into this theory? With all the bounty of North America -- yet stuck in primitive state.

I didn't say anything about "cultures". I simply stated the well known fact that any species will begin to genetically diverge if a subset of its population becomes separated from the main group. The group(s) that migrated out of Africa were continuously facing new challenges as they had to adapt to new environments. They had to protect themselves from the cold, create new hunting techniques, etc..

After many thousands of years, the groups that left Africa diverged genetically from the group that stayed behind. I guess I'm not sure why you would have difficulty understanding this. Any non-PC text on evolution should give you the basics.

Here's a simple example you might be able to understand. Start with a group of rats. Separate them into a study group and a control group. Subject the study group to a series of challenging mazes. Only allow the rats which successfully navigate the mazes to mate. Then test their offspring with a new set of challenging mazes and again, only allow the smartest ones to mate. After many generations, take the study group rats and compare them to the control group's offspring. You will clearly see that the study group rats are better at navigating mazes.

Hopefully this example is simple enough for you to understand, because you said that you missed some class.

SmartGuy wrote:

I think that most of us can agree that some of our early ancestors left Africa 60-100K years ago. Those that did leave faced new intellectual challenges and continued to evolve and became modern humans. Those that stayed behind, today's Africans, are essentially unchanged from the time of that mass migration. This explains that stubborn IQ gap that liberals love to hate.

For a 'smart' person, you seem decidedly racist.

tell me what do you think about a white girl and a black guy having kids?

adsfdsklf wrote:

Forgive me for my ignorance of the flora/fauna of ancient Africa. I must have missed class that day.

Your theory seems to be that cultures will only "rise" so far as the environment allows or dictates. You cite the indigenous Africans and Australians as examples.

How do the Native Americans fit into this theory? With all the bounty of North America -- yet stuck in primitive state.

The Americas were the last habitable continents to be populated by men. For cereal grains, there wasn't as much variety as there was in the fertile crescent. Sure, America grows plenty of wheat today, but it wasn't there when the Native Americans arrived. The plants they were able to domesticate had to planted individually, unlike wheat which can be planted much more efficiently, and didn't provide as much nutrition as other grains.

As for fauna, all the large mammals that might have been domesticated went extinct in the Americas shortly after the arrival of humans, with the exception of the llama/alpaca in the Andes, which was domesticated. Despite the lower availability of cereal grains and large mammals, there were signficant settled societies in the Americas, notably in the Andes and in Mesoamerica, Mesoamerica being one of the few civilizations cited as having independently invented written language. There was also some more extensive farming going on in the Mississippi Valley.

But there was both a lower frequency of the factors that led to settled society in Mesopotamia, and by the time humans arrived into the Americas, people had been living in the Fertile Crescent for ages. Again, this isn't my theory: Jared Diamond has popularized it (and I subscribe to it). I think he has a chart that shows the grains and potentially domesticated animals native to the different parts of the world, the approximate dates of humans arrival into those areas, and the time frame it took for settled society and writing to develop. I loaned my copy of his book out so I don't have it with me now.

With the Americas, Europe had huge advantages in possessing guns (thanks to the Chinese invention of gunpowder), steel weapons and armor, and horses for mounted attacks and quick travel over long distances. And it's clear the people of the Americas weren't stupid. The Spaniards marveled at the beauty of Tenochtitlan, and the Sioux were skilled adopters of both horses and firearms on the plains of the midwest. But the biggest factor as to why Europe obliterated the Native American societies was because of small pox. Humans in the Old World had a history of close occupation with domesticated ruminants, which is likely how cow pox gave way to small pox. By the time the 16th Century rolled around, small pox had gotten around so that there was some level of immunity in most people. But because there were no domesticated cattle in the Americas, that never happened, which is why the death toll was so high when small pox was introduced by Europeans (both accidentally and later intentionally in some cases). It's conjecture, but I believe it wouldn't have been a wholesale defeat of the native peoples of the Americas had it not been for small pox. That was a far more lethal tool than muskets or swords or horses.

I recommend you check out his books. Not everybody agrees with his conclusions, but they I think they follow well.

tell me what do you think about a white girl and a black guy having kids? (quote)

Well, if Obama’s an example of such a union - the practise should very much be discouraged.

Seriously though, I travelled and worked in black Africa for many years.

I must admit, in the absence of available white females, I was obliged to, ahem, indulge myself with the native variety.

If though, by having kids, you mean entering a relationship such as marriage with a black female - unthinkable.

Funnily enough, it seems black males think along the same lines.

My various jobs in Africa entailed me entering the abodes of young black males and without exception, they had pin-ups of white women stuck up on their walls.

The centrefold type, featuring mainly blonds.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Mongolians wrote:

?me? What do I know ? Geneticist have proven that there is no white race. People in Europe are a mixture of Mongol, Semitic, Central Asian (aka Indian) and African people.

White's are uniquely descended from Neanderthals.

that's why i have all this hair on my chest

GROWLLLLLLLLL!!!

Black Kid wrote:

SmartGuy wrote:

I think that most of us can agree that some of our early ancestors left Africa 60-100K years ago. Those that did leave faced new intellectual challenges and continued to evolve and became modern humans. Those that stayed behind, today's Africans, are essentially unchanged from the time of that mass migration. This explains that stubborn IQ gap that liberals love to hate.

For a 'smart' person, you seem decidedly racist.

tell me what do you think about a white girl and a black guy having kids?

you really have a small wee-wee don't you

so sad

Black Kid wrote:

SmartGuy wrote:

I think that most of us can agree that some of our early ancestors left Africa 60-100K years ago. Those that did leave faced new intellectual challenges and continued to evolve and became modern humans. Those that stayed behind, today's Africans, are essentially unchanged from the time of that mass migration. This explains that stubborn IQ gap that liberals love to hate.

For a 'smart' person, you seem decidedly racist.

tell me what do you think about a white girl and a black guy having kids?

don't blame whites for you being black.

it's not their fault

man, what a difference 24 hours can make...this thread really sucks now. pity that professionalism and scientific conjecture gave way to personal attacks. oh well...typical letsrun, i suppose.

What? I'm not blaming anyone for being black. I love my race.

Yes I admit a lot of black people probably don't try very hard at life and commit more crimes, but there are reasons for it.

I myself have never committed a crime. I have taken numerous IQ tests and scored 125, and 120 twice in college. When I was in an advanced program for students in highschool I scored 134, so that makes me smarter than most white people AND most Asian people.

I think that the reason Blacks score lower is because they don't try as hard because they are told they are stupid.

I also think that welfare and social programs promotes lower IQ blacks into having more children, and that this has gone on for a long time in the black population back to the days of slavery. If it wasn't for slavery, welfare abuse, and blacks constantly being told and treated as if they are inferior, they would score in the same range as whites.

Wat up niggas

i sense your bitterness.

Black Kid wrote:

Thousands of 'pure' Icelanders could be part Native American.

Great reasoning. Using that logic, huge numbers of Jews in the US and Europe could be part African because Jews owned and operated most of the ships that transported slaves from Africa to the Americas. Good grief.

Prof. Noel Ignatiev

Harvard University

SlowFatMaster wrote:

To jfaf;dsajfa;sjf

Take the best classical musician ever (excluding Wynton Marsalis) and have him try to improvise a solo on the "Giant Steps" chord progression and compare it to John Coltrane doing the same. Or compare the same classical musician vs. Charlie Parker burning on "Cherokee" and tell me black people are inferior. Itzhak Perlman tried improvising on much simpler chord structures and the results were pitiful. Do you think Michael Jordan or Dr. J. could conceive the moves that they did without superior brains?

Coltrane and Monk playing the shit out of "Trinkle Tinkle in the late 1950s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0XLjJXUO4o

Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie destroying "Ko Ko" (same chords as "Cherokee") in 1947:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_ZajJd-1kY

You're weak Steve Sailer, lol. Look up Steve Allen's remarks on jazz and critics. One time he was panned for an album he did. Then he took his housekeeper's photo, she was black, put it on an album cover, and had the same tunes on the record along with tracks that were nothing but noise and chord progressions that made no sense and worse. Critics raved about it. We know where your ilk are coming from. Listen to John Coltrane and his top friends on "Ascension", all together, live, improvising. Garbage. The myth of "improvisation" amongst jazz musicians has gone on for decades, when actually most of what you hear - when it's clean - is carefully rehearsed. Go back to Hillel House you disingenuous lying shyster. Jazz and rock are great, but very simple forms of music. Btw, Perlman is more the beneficiary of superb publicity and people with media control pushing him as a great, rather than his being famous for his true level of talent. It's all rigged and you know it.

To FastThinMaster:

Sorry I'm not familiar with Steve Sailer or Hillel House. I'll look them up.

I didn't put up a link to "Ascension", I put up links to tunes with chord progressions. If you don't like free jazz (and many Coltrane fans don't like anything he did after 1964 or so) and you think it's garbage, that's fine.

The Steve Allen story is great! Some critics don't listen very well, like the one who couldn't tell Coltrane from Sonny Rollins on "Tenor Madness" for example.

If you believe that jazz is a simple form of music and that the intellect required to create a new melody that goes with the chord progression (in other words, an improvised solo on chord changes) is no greater than the intellect required to read a note on a page and play it, you are entitled to your opinion.

Sure, Coltrane and Bird practiced a lot and had their licks. Coltrane punches in his descending "double diminished" pattern a bunch of times on the Monk tune I put up. But, if you listen to alternate takes of tunes, especially in Bird's case, the solos are quite different from each other.

Not sure what the "disingenuous lying shyster" stuff is about. I grew up across the street from Lennie Tristano, I studied with Jackie McLean, so in that sense I'm biased. I really like jazz and think it's hard to play it well. I like some white jazz guys too: Lee Konitz, Art Pepper, Warne Marsh, Hermeto Pascoal (really white because he is an albino!), Stan Getz among others.