Check out this Mutual Fund for last 35 years - amazing!

2007 data from the US Census on family income, this give the percent of families making less than the given level.

Under $10,000: 4.6%

Under $14,999: 7.9%

Under $19,999: 12.1%

Under $24,999: 17.0%

Under $29,999: 21.8%

Under $34,999: 26.6%

Under $39,999: 31.3%

Under $44,999: 36.0%

Under $49,999: 40.3%

Under $59,999: 48.6%

Under $74,999: 59.9%

Under $84,999: 66.4%

Under $99,999: 74.2%

Under $149,999: 89.5%

Under $199,999: 95.2%

Under $249,999: 97.5%

Median is a little above $60,000.

Not Sure wrote:

The per capita income in the USA is 2009 was less than $50k.

Throw out the 400 or so hundred billionaires and all the multi millionaires and millionaires, and you are looking at an average family of four trying to get by in less than $70k per year. After payroll taxes, federal taxes, state and local taxes, health care costs, mortgage or rent, food and clothing, education, babysitters, transportation, life insurance, home repairs, etc., there is no way in most folks in this nation can save 15% of income per year at all, never mind comfortably. Flagpole is living in a sheltered dreamworld.

It's all in the choices you make and you know it. If you need to have premium cable, a $20,000 car and want to eat out regularly, then no, saving will not occur. If you get the rabbit ears, a $3,000 beater, and eat rice and beans then you can do it. et cetera.

You make good points. The teacher vs. auto mechanic is a good point...goes to why I said it was more a philosophical point of view than just a monetary one. Though in most states when looking at the UPPER range of salaries for both, the teacher wins, and then of course most teachers have handsome retirement money coming in that they can cash in in full after 35 years, so many retire at age 58...that's awesome. They have the summers off too mostly.But, your point still stands.It is DEFINITELY a lot easier to save 15% of your salary if you make $65,000 vs. $32,000. Of course 15% of 65k is more MONEY than 15% of 32k, but it is easier to do. Of your fixed things though, I would only say that food is really fixed (though the higher earner might eat out more or buy more expensive food from the grocery store). With cars and rent, you can vary your output greatly.But again, you make good points overall.

remember that a family of 4 making around $50k doesn't pay any federal income tax and up to $65k the rate is very low.

Sure, there are other taxes, but many of your middle class folks take home almost what they earn. Think about that - it is a gift from the rich folk to the average folk.

Taking home about what you make makes saving easier, non? maybe 15% isn't so hard?

Not Sure wrote:

The per capita income in the USA is 2009 was less than $50k.

Throw out the 400 or so hundred billionaires and all the multi millionaires and millionaires, and you are looking at an average family of four trying to get by in less than $70k per year. After payroll taxes, federal taxes, state and local taxes, health care costs, mortgage or rent, food and clothing, education, babysitters, transportation, life insurance, home repairs, etc., there is no way in most folks in this nation can save 15% of income per year at all, never mind comfortably. Flagpole is living in a sheltered dreamworld.

1) Depends on where that $70,000 is being made. If it's a family of 4 in San Francisco, then I'm not sure how you could do it. If it's in Columbus, OH, then 15% can EASILY be saved for a family of 4...EASILY.

2) There are TONS of places where NICE homes in good school districts in this country can be had for $150,000 or less in areas where you could be making your $70,000 a year salary. With rates well below 5%, that makes a VERY doable mortgage payment on $70,000.

3) As was mentioned earlier, you don't need to have everything. My wife and I for YEARS did not have cable TV at all...just rabbit ears. I'm 44 and we got cable 3 years ago for the first time in our 21-year marriage (except for a one-year period in there before that). We got it because it is a LUXURY that we could finally afford. You MUST save and invest for retirement, so if you can't do 15% or more then you CAN'T afford luxuries like cable TV.

4) I had a 1995 Saturn that I drove for 13 years. Every single person I know that makes what I do drove a nicer car. I still have a 2000 Windstar, and I bought a used 2005 Honda Accord for under $15,000.

5) We haven't eaten out a lot and today, even though I make more than I ever have (though we made more in total when my wife worked), we still don't eat out a lot.

Keep homes and cars within your means. Don't buy extras (cell phones, cable TV, nice vacations, etc.) when you can't afford them...and you CAN'T afford them if you can't invest 15% into retirement accounts, or even 10% if you started right away or you have a pension or crazy matching from your employer.

Not sure how I'm living in a sheltered dreamworld. I've moonlighted as a computer instructor when I needed extra money to keep the investing up. Gotta make sacrifices (and not even all that big ones) if you want to win brother. Except in the most extreme circumstances, 15% can be put away by ANYONE. Just takes a budget and a plan.

youskers wrote:

remember that a family of 4 making around $50k doesn't pay any federal income tax and up to $65k the rate is very low.

Sure, there are other taxes, but many of your middle class folks take home almost what they earn. Think about that - it is a gift from the rich folk to the average folk.

Taking home about what you make makes saving easier, non? maybe 15% isn't so hard?

Well, I definitely don't take home my entire salary, but when adding two kids and itemizing, we for sure see the tax bill shrink.

Those kids are expensive though, and while I'd not trade them, I can't quite believe it when I hear people without kids (especially married COUPLES who both work) complain about not being able to save money. I know a couple in their 40s who both make over $60,000 each, and just the other day she mentioned that she and her husband had dreamed for years to take a vacation to Hawaii and that she just didn't see how they could do it. WTF? $120,000 a year with NO KIDS to pay for?! Holy crap they should be going to Hawaii three times a year if they really wanted. But, why can't they? A $400,000 5 bedroom house for one. Luxury cars for both of them that they never have longer than 5 years. A golf club membership. Pure bred dogs that they show and do agility with. Lots of eating out. Lots of toys.

They could still have a nice house for $200,000 in the area they live in, drive Hondas instead of the BMW and the Lexus, and right there they'd be able to do it EASILY while still keeping their golf club membership and all other things. They choose not to, so I don't really want to hear the whining.