You definitely have a shot a four minutes. It may just not be for the mile.
You definitely have a shot a four minutes. It may just not be for the mile.
As an aside, according to Wikipedia, El Guerrouj ran 1:43.18 for 800m, although the location is not documented. Regardless, the dude was amazingly fast and, as you said, he would regularly go out in 1:50 for his world record attempts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hicham_El_Guerrouj#Personal_bests
Rod H wrote:
As an aside, according to Wikipedia, El Guerrouj ran 1:43.18 for 800m, although the location is not documented. Regardless, the dude was amazingly fast and, as you said, he would regularly go out in 1:50 for his world record attempts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hicham_El_Guerrouj#Personal_bests
You should never believe what you read
He actually ran exactly 4 seconds slower
I'm gonna piggyback onto this thread (Is that poor form?). My goals are somewhat similar to the OP's, although I don't have the same background.
I'm 25 and my 1500 PR is 3:57, but I never trained as a mid d runner in college. I was a mediocre LD runner who never did much in track--I had a few random illnesses and injuries, always in the spring. I ran high mileage, up to 100 mile weeks throughout my senior year. 8k cross pr is 25:28.
Since college I've stayed generally fit, running a fair amount and even doing some workouts now and then but nothing too structured. But I've played a ton of basketball and soccer, usually sprinting as hard as I could for a couple hours, and I feel significantly more explosive than ever before. This past summer I ran an open 400 at a low-key local meet without any track workouts in my legs--all training was haphazard--and ran 52.7. Never thought I was capable of that kind of speed in college. It makes me think I could go 50.x, maybe even under, with real speed training.
Basically, I have a huge strength base from years of LD and newfound explosiveness. I believe that if I put in the work to synch those together, I could be significantly better than I ever was before.
800 pr -- 1:58
1500 pr -- 3:57
Goals:
1) PR in the 800 (confident)
2) PR in the 1500 (confident)
3) sub 3:50 in the 1500 (possible?)
4) sub 4 mile (just a dream at this point)
Thoughts? Suggestions?
numiler22 wrote:
First, you need to find a coach that will help you out. I think you are putting in too many miles to prepare specifically for the mile/1500m. I am guessing around 45-55 miles and doing a lot of speedwork targeting improvement on 400-800m times. You need to get used to coming by at 1'57 and hanging on.
You are 23 and you have until you are about 31 to make sure you peak. Don't stress because like most say, it will not happen overnight.
SPEED!!!!!!!
don't listen to the retards telling you to train for the mile as if you're a sprinter. to get good at the mile you have to train like a miler. it's common sense. 45 mpw isn't going to do shit for you.
Well, good thing you finished with NCAA running. Another year with that coach you'd be back to running 4:30. My sense is that you have been overworking the 'strength' side which leaves you lacking a) basic speed b) specific speed c) vulnerable to chronic fatigue and injury. All the base isn't worth anything if you overdo. Your training has been misdirected.
As for mileage, Lagat and Coe ran <330 on 50/week. Bannister
ran <4 running half as much as that.
Truth is you could drop your 5000m to 13:30 and not break 4 for the mile.
If you want some help you can email me.
Oh and I would guess your true speed potential is closer to 48+ not 51.
you, my friend, are an idiot. Out of 311m people you think there are only 20,000 people that can run sub-55 for a 400m. while i do agree with around 40-50 people under 4min in the US, think of all the high school/collegiate/masters runners who run, plus people who do other sports and just have raw speed. i would estimate around 5m people can run UNDER 55s.
good luck with running sub-4. you seem to be capable, just work on the speed a bit more.
dsrunner has the day off wrote:
Well, good thing you finished with NCAA running. Another year with that coach you'd be back to running 4:30. My sense is that you have been overworking the 'strength' side which leaves you lacking a) basic speed b) specific speed c) vulnerable to chronic fatigue and injury. All the base isn't worth anything if you overdo. Your training has been misdirected.
As for mileage, Lagat and Coe ran <330 on 50/week. Bannister
ran <4 running half as much as that.
Truth is you could drop your 5000m to 13:30 and not break 4 for the mile.
If you want some help you can email me.
Oh and I would guess your true speed potential is closer to 48+ not 51.
dsrunner@juno.com
I will have to disagree with your "sense". How is 75mpw during xc overdoing the base? My training was oriented to help my xc team during xc season, then run a fast 15 during track season. Is xc the best way to train for a mile? No, but at the time it was more important to help out my team and i have no regrets about that.
As for injuries, there were two times that I was injured. Once the summer before fr year when i tried to hit 50mi my 3rd week after a 2 month break. I developed some IT band issues. The second was some tendonitis my sr year during indoor that I didn't take care of early enough, it happens. I've already explained my times suffering my senior year, and it had nothing to do with the workouts.
I dont know Coe and Lagat's training but I doubt they did 50mpw all year.
To Los Soles: Any piggybacking is welcome!
oh and the tendonitis sr year was due to some very very bad (but free) shoes.
gsadua wrote:
numiler22 wrote:First, you need to find a coach that will help you out. I think you are putting in too many miles to prepare specifically for the mile/1500m. I am guessing around 45-55 miles and doing a lot of speedwork targeting improvement on 400-800m times. You need to get used to coming by at 1'57 and hanging on.
You are 23 and you have until you are about 31 to make sure you peak. Don't stress because like most say, it will not happen overnight.
SPEED!!!!!!!
don't listen to the retards telling you to train for the mile as if you're a sprinter. to get good at the mile you have to train like a miler. it's common sense. 45 mpw isn't going to do shit for you.
Ask Alan Webb peaking at 45-50mi, Seb Coe didn't do anythng over 45mi in a week..he doesn't have the speed because he has never worked at it. Training like a miler means doing tremendous leg turnover along with 3k-5k strength. In order see how fast he can get, he needs to know how fast he can run 400 and 800m. If he does not improve, he will most likely not improve at the mile.
Am I dreaming... wrote:
dsrunner has the day off wrote:Well, good thing you finished with NCAA running. Another year with that coach you'd be back to running 4:30. My sense is that you have been overworking the 'strength' side which leaves you lacking a) basic speed b) specific speed c) vulnerable to chronic fatigue and injury. All the base isn't worth anything if you overdo. Your training has been misdirected.
As for mileage, Lagat and Coe ran <330 on 50/week. Bannister
ran <4 running half as much as that.
Truth is you could drop your 5000m to 13:30 and not break 4 for the mile.
If you want some help you can email me.
Oh and I would guess your true speed potential is closer to 48+ not 51.
dsrunner@juno.comI will have to disagree with your "sense". How is 75mpw during xc overdoing the base? My training was oriented to help my xc team during xc season, then run a fast 15 during track season. Is xc the best way to train for a mile? No, but at the time it was more important to help out my team and i have no regrets about that.
As for injuries, there were two times that I was injured. Once the summer before fr year when i tried to hit 50mi my 3rd week after a 2 month break. I developed some IT band issues. The second was some tendonitis my sr year during indoor that I didn't take care of early enough, it happens. I've already explained my times suffering my senior year, and it had nothing to do with the workouts.
I dont know Coe and Lagat's training but I doubt they did 50mpw all year.
To Los Soles: Any piggybacking is welcome!
Yes these guys did do that mileage on a yearly basis. They were 800-1500m specialists. That is what they worked on every day.
And the over training goes for track season. You already have the base from XC so you could have cut down on mileage and worked on speed and strength for the 1500m. You do not need 70mpw. I did 80-85mpw in XC and backed off to 45mpw during track season and did plenty of speed and stregth work. You should read up on Lagat, Seb Coe, and Alan Webb training.
i think you can do it.
Going to bump this up once.
To Lenny: Sorry, I just think you're very wrong about speed holding the OP back. My assumption is that it will be significantly easier to increase his endurance at this stage in his life than to try to increase his speed enough to overcome what looks to me like a pretty clear deficit.
Someone else here mentioned speed-endurance which I completely agree with. If I were to suggest training tips, I would recommend decent mileage (75ish with good recovery), a good amount of tempo (making sure it remains at tempo effort, not turning into races), and a good amount of speed-endurance type workouts. I would classify something like 20x200 with short rest (100m in :45), starting around 3k pace and slowly working down to 800 pace with a few fast ones at the end. In my base phase I did a ton of these where I'd go something like:
2 @ 33
2 @ 32
2 @ 31
6 @ 30
4 @ 29
2 @ 28
2 @ 27
it ends up being 4km averaging around 4:00 pace with very little rest. I thought it helped a lot.
To the OP: if you do decide to make a run at it, just realize it will take time, consistency, and a bit of OCD. I really hope you try for it, one thing that bums me out is when guys quit running after college because they think they can't work and train at the same time. I'd like to see that mindset change over time and have a more competitive post-collegiate scene (beyond just the top guys from the NCAA level).