Best coach in the UK

why does it count for nothing waz? were you are crap junior who is bitter to see others achieve where you couldnt?

we are building for the future at present waz, you ask where the all the seniors are at the moment--mabey you should wait 5 years and then i think you will have your answer! we already have some very good seniors (thommo, anderson, stopher, vint, robinson and few others) but we routinely have more than 10 juniors in southerns and nationals all competing to quite decent levels so give us a few years and you will have to find something new to moan about, about us.

Ron Bowden;over 50 yrs of top class coaching with no poaching.

Yet to meet anyone to match Mick Woods enthusiasm for the sport. This combined with an awesome knowledge obtained through years of experience as a runner and coach make him my number 1.

No coincidence that Aldershot have dominated distance running in the younger age groups and I'm in no doubt many of whom will go on to great things in the seniors.

Chris Thompson

Charlotte Browning

To name a couple

Bud doesn't coach 40 people at all. There is a small group of athletes that he talks to more than others. A lot of the uni guys have their own coaches. Bud sets the sessions and encourages them throughout. He is also their to bounce ideas off as well. Slightly exaggerated coaching 40 people. More like 10 or so properley.

Mick Woods is a legend and always takes an interest in what you are doing. Does an amazing job at afd.

interesting debate - but all a bit daft really - there is no 'one' best coach. Different people's methods work (or don't work) for different athletes. The ability of the coach lies in being able to adapt the training to the athlete, rather than the athlete to the training, which I'm sure what some of the guys who have been mentioned here, do (e.g I'm sure Dave Mitch, at 5ft4 or whatever did different training to a guy built like the proverbial outhouse that is Rich Vint, under Mick W).

While there are no doubt some basic underlying principles relateing to the athlete's main event, the rest is as they say more an art then a Science.

I'm fortunate to have come into contact with a couple of great coaches who are very different as people and have differing approaches (George Gandy and Gordon Surtees). Yet both have produced world class runners (Surtess - 2 x 1.44 guys, some top 'chasers ; Gandy - Jon Nuttell (7,36, 13,16), Jon Brown (27.18), Chris McGeorge (1,45) and I'm sure many others who I dont know off-hand).

To be able to say that one coach is best is daft, and frankly pointless.

To answer the Horwill debate, Tim H was effectively self coached from 1986 or so, with advice from a few guys who had been at the top previously. As has been stated, by the time you're 25 or so you should know what works for you and what doesn't - so rather than a coach you perhaps just need a sounding board, or objective view occasionaly.

"Can this even be a question? Frank Horwill and Peter Coe by far."

I cant agree with the Coe bit as Seb was coached by Gandy,who coached loads more as Coe senior did not.

matt, vint isnt coached by mick--sorry if that post was confusing--i was just naming some good afd seniors!

woodsy is still absolute legend though!

In reply to Matt Raw above, if Hutchings was self coached from '86 onwards why does FH justify all of his training by saying this took the last British man to a world cross medal('89).

desperation

This is exactly what the problem is with much of Franks writing. Its often inaccurate or misleading. He likes to use Tim as an example so that people take his work as trialled, tested & proven at World level. I do not know Tim, but people have told me in the past that he was mainly self coached for much of his career.

However, if he was, then Frank had obviously done a bloody good job in the early years to set him up initially.

Take Horwill with a pinch of salt, he is a clever, entertaining, insprirational man, but sadly he is also often wrong.

Dave

Where are all of AFD seniors??

Chris Thompson,Nick Anderson,Elliot Robinson,Brian Stopher,Matt Ashton,Chris Bolt,Ali Smith,Dave Udal,Steve Ablitt,(Ed Jackson and Vinty, not coached by Mick).

All bar 2 under the age of 24, and all capable of a top 50 place in the National cross.

and upcoming juniors....

Gav Smith

Karl McCulloch

Andy Vernon

James Ellis

to name a few.

Sorry if I missed anyone out, there are so many...

another to add to that list is phil banks. hasnt done anything for while due to injuries but he will be back soon and he has immense talent and works very hard! also add martin mashford as one for the future. injured all season so not picked for the county team, called into squad for eng schools the night befoire and coems 9th as a bottom year!

What I was saying is that the level of success in the junior ranks achieved by AFD has not been seen in the senior ranks, this may well change in the future, but as yet they haven't done it so we shall have to wait and see...

I thought Nick Anderson had a lot of input at AFD?

As for it being easy to coach kids, I stand by my comment, kids do not have to cope with any outside conflict, work, children, travel, money, etc... they go to school or college or Uni and other than that have very few other concerns.... this is why so many are lost after Uni or college. As a coach its far easier to coach a kid who is focused on one thing, added to this the fact that kids are far more likely to do what they are told and have fewer ideas of their own in terms of coaching and you have a pretty simple situation. Any club with a decent sized group, which is mixed (very important in the teens) is likely to do well, the young guys are trying to impress the young girls and visa versa, it might sounds crazy but its true... When people start to move away, get jobs etc.. those pier groups crumble, thats when it is hard...

I wasn't a particularly good junior to be honest, and when I look at my contemporaries, those who were are not around, considering I never finished in the top 200 of an english schools or the top 150 in a national and now I have finished top 20 in the senior Uk Xc champs. godo juniors do not necessarily make good seniors, nobody remembers who wins a colts ora boys race. People give up far too early, it might take you 15-20 years of training to reach your potential and not enough people are prepared to do that.

yes nick does have a lot of input at AFD, but he himself is coached by mick! nick coaches ellis vernon ben morue and a few others. he also helps out with alot of technical stuff such as teaching people how to do the drills properly and is very knowledagable on injuries and that kind of thing aswell, but he has been around for few years whereas woodsy has layeda foundation for us to build on for god knows how many years! hopefully we will start to reep the rewards in the seniors shortly!

I think it is a bit niave of you to assume to that kids have only 1 focus! school/college/uni can be very stressful in themsleves, then the other obvious distractions that teenagers suffer!! so to say that he is working with kids only interested in 1thign (runnign) isnt neceassarily correct. you also over simplify the "large group effect." yes there is large group but why do you think there is a large group? why would more school kids from the aldershot area be interested in athletics than kids in the winchester or basingstoke areas? there must have been soem success there in the first place to attract the kids and now more success breads more success! also if you put a group of 100kids in with a coach who had no clue what he was doing, how many national medalists do you think you would get? to underestimate woodsy effect and dismiss his coaching as mearly the effects of having a large group is simply ridicolous. If attracting members is so easy and coaching kids is so simple then why are there so few kids in the sport and where are all the london irish juniors?

seeing how fast you can run from point A to point B is a pretty arbitrary thing to do anyway--so what makes a 20year old doing it any more relevant than somone younger than 20 doing it? yes success is harder in seniors due to numbers envolved but it still hurts a 15 year olds legs as much as it hurts a 25 year olds!

You completely miss the point, the whole reason for the junior ranks is to nurture athletes into good seniors, to have a good junior fail at senior level suggests that something has gone wrong or that goals have been at best short term. The reason London Irish has no junior section is becasue the club has no base, it never has had, it has always shared with either TVH or Ealing and in order to maintain good relations with those clubs, kids turning up are directed in their direction. however we did have the National Youths individual and team Champions in 1992, none of which are running now.... at the time they were described as some of the best talents Britain had produced destined for great things at senior level. You take a look at the top 10 at the National or the Southern, how many of them were exceptional juniors, surprisingly few.

im not saying that good juniors necessarily make good seniors or that to be a good senior you must have excelled in the junior ranks! That is point which is blatantly obvious. and frankly i am happy about it as i have only once managed a top 10 finish at parliment hill and have never been in the top 10 of a national level x country, yet still hope to continue improving to make some sort of impact in senior athletics. i just wondering why you think "being a good junior means nothing" or what ever it was you said. I dont disagree with it intirely in terms of its relevance for future sucess but i dont understand why achieving something (not just nessecarily in athletics terms) is less of an achievemnt if you are young than if you are old? as i sed seeing how fast you can move from one place to another is a pretty random idea in itself which in real terms doesnt actually achieve much, so why would an old person doing it well be of anymore importance, relevance or be anymore worthwhile than a younger person doing the same?

Simply becasue kids are not competing on an equal level. Some kids are bigger and stronger than others at the same age, look at a boys or youths race, there are huge differences in development. seniors is the only level playing field.

Not sure if he considers himself British or Irish but John Morrin from StMalachy's Belfast must be a contender. Most of his athletes declare for the republic and not the UK. He has a very impressive track record at junior and young senior. Because he's attached to teh school he must lose some contact afterwards but his list is impressive ... last yr he had six 6 athletes under 3'46 for 1500m including turnbull at 3'36.

Someone who has had success with both juniors and seniors is Bob Parker. Did a lot of work with Dave Bedford over the years as well as Ally Wyeth and Andrea Whitcombe. With his late wife (damn, her name escapes me - Sheila?) was the driving force behind Parkside and their successes across all age groups in the eighties and nineties.

It raises the question of what a coach is. Bob had a good squad of athletes doing sessions with him, but I'm not sure he coached many, in terms of setting schedules and looking after the lifestyle side of things. Andrea Whitcombe did all her sessions under Bob but I'm pretty sure she always listed someone else (whose name also escapes me) as her coach.

In this respect Bob is similar to Mike Down. Mike gathers as many athletes as he can and provides a group environment, but doesn't set schedules for many, if any.