Could I break 33 mins. in the 10k based on this workout

dude...! wrote:

The dude abides!

:-)

Don't get cocky. I'm still all about the puppies... kittens I can go either way on.

HotPanOliveOil, I think you can get close, as this is similar to a program I did a long time ago, where my 1k interval targets were 3:20 (8 x 1000 on a track, with 90 second jogs). However, there was one other day during the week where I would do 400s (20 x 400 @ 72-75, with a minute rest (or jog)). The weekly mileage ranged from 40-60, with 2 speed sessions; sometimes a good tempo run was included.

My results: 33:32 PB (dare we talk about race weight?)

Stamina, as J.R. stated, is very key to success at this.

Everyone's abilities vary, plus things like weather, health, etc., will figure in to how well you perform on your target race.

Good luck!

I'd say 10-12k of the same pace/recovery repeated once every other week or so over a couple of months would be more likely to break 33. 8k, no, not quite yet. Keep it up. I preferred 2k reps with a 60 second rest. More race like.

Thanks for the ideas.....would you recommend incorporating these types of workouts year round?

HotPanOliveOil wrote:

Thanks for the ideas.....would you recommend incorporating these types of workouts year round?

Mentally, I think it's nice to just jog around for awhile each year... especially when rebuilding mileage after a taper and big race. So I'm not sure about year round. However, apart from that you could do those workouts any time when quality was a part of the plan. I like the idea of medium days and pretty much all of the aforementioned workouts could be medium day workouts. I usually put a medium day before a hard day and then an easy or maybe two after that.

What is you 5k time?

MKily wrote:

What is you 5k time?

I havent run a 5k more than 2 years - 16:37.....I hope to be around 16 flat in a couple of weeks (think Im around 16 flat shape)

hot pan, where is your race? if it's in los angeles, i'll come pace you myself

LA runner. wrote:

hot pan, where is your race? if it's in los angeles, i'll come pace you myself

Thanks for the offer....unfortunately its in Canada! Little far from where you are. I wish I could have a pacer, but Ill have to rely on my Garmin. With the race Im entering its usually pretty spread out until the 35-36 min. guys.

There is always a 30 flat type guy that shows and kicks everyone's ass and collects the 500 bucks.....then maybe 1-2 31-33 type guys. Then a flood of 35-36 guys. So, I'll likely be in "no man's land" as usual....oh well

Hotpan, BC area? If so I could probably set up a track 10k across the border with some pacers.

sisyphus wrote:

I'm not a huge speed for speed's sake advocate. The ability to hold close to max speed seems more important than that flat out speed. My best speed workouts for speed enhancement are

1) Strides during easy runs that are close to top speed.

2) 16x100 starting every 60 seconds at mile pace or slightly faster

3) Short steep uphill sprints. Like 8x10 second hill with 2 minutes + recovery

4)Flat out 40-50 yard sprints

I feel such sprints with long rests (8x the run) are detrimental and counter productive to racing 10k and longer.

There is no such 8x the rest in a 10k, in fact there is no rest at all. Therefore, rests in training should likewise either be very short or else absent.

There are no long/fast runs or even longer repetitions. For example where are fast 4, 6, 10, and/or 13 mile runs in the training? There are sprints that are only 1/100th of the distance, but no longer FAST runs that are double the distance.

There is a huge imbalance toward too short of runs with too long of recoveries, and not enough (or any) long FAST runs.

JR,

How old are you and what are your times? Why is your name not up here?

J.R. wrote:

I feel such sprints with long rests (8x the run) are detrimental and counter productive to racing 10k and longer.

There is no such 8x the rest in a 10k, in fact there is no rest at all. Therefore, rests in training should likewise either be very short or else absent.

There are no long/fast runs or even longer repetitions. For example where are fast 4, 6, 10, and/or 13 mile runs in the training? There are sprints that are only 1/100th of the distance, but no longer FAST runs that are double the distance.

There is a huge imbalance toward too short of runs with too long of recoveries, and not enough (or any) long FAST runs.

JR, these are workouts that addressed a specific question of how to get a faster 400 while 10k training. In case you missed it, I said these workouts could be done as part of other workouts or the day before a hard workout. You have a choice; you can go jog for 30 minutes and call it a day or jog for 30 minutes, run some short sprints, warm down, then call it a day. The really long rests keep the workout from being hard so you can do - oh let's say 10 miles at MP the next day. If you have been following this thread you should have seen that I say 10k pace stuff with very quick jogs are a great workout. There are a lot more workouts too. I'm not writing a schedule here, just some fill in the blank workouts.

sisyphus wrote:Hotpan, BC area? If so I could probably set up a track 10k across the border with some pacers.

Where are you at, sisyphus?

I'm also interested to know where hotpan plans to race. From his description of likely competition, I'm guessing somewhere around the GTA, not BC, but could be something around Vancouver I suppose.

dude...! wrote:

sisyphus wrote:Hotpan, BC area? If so I could probably set up a track 10k across the border with some pacers.

Where are you at, sisyphus?

I'm also interested to know where hotpan plans to race. From his description of likely competition, I'm guessing somewhere around the GTA, not BC, but could be something around Vancouver I suppose.

Sisyphus - Im racing in Ontario unfotunately. Too bad, I would have loved to have taken up your offer on a paced race!

Too bad hotpan aka precipice. It's always fun to put together impromptu races. Dude... Bellingham, WA.

sisyphus wrote:

Too bad hotpan aka precipice. It's always fun to put together impromptu races. Dude... Bellingham, WA.

Wooops, thats my name I used on another thread I started re: an achillies issue Ive developed (thats a whole other story!). Hopefully it fades away and I can get back to training for my races

sisyphus wrote:

JR, these are workouts that addressed a specific question of how to get a faster 400 while 10k training.

I didn't notice the 400 question, but think if someone wants to get faster at 400 they should forget all about training for the 10k, and visa versa.

To me, running 10 miles at marathon pace would not be sufficient, and why sprints the day before, if you can only run 10 miles at marathon pace. I'd skip the sprints, then find a race and run 10 miles as fast as possible, keep testing over distance, then whatever speed the runner has can be put to better use in the race.

But if you're training for 400 or 800 then, sure, that would be a different topic. I thought this thread was about training for 10k.

Yes it is, you just don't get it at all! How old are you and how fast?