The USA Cross Country Dream Team for World Cross 2011 - Is it Possible???

Ecued wrote:

[quote]finance professor wrote:

That's what's incredible about the Kenyan, Iritrean and Ethiopean teams. Every year some 26:50 runners are no-shows and every year they still kick ass.

Once again, just do the research. This is ignorance. Sure they may have one or two guys, they also have guys who are 13:05 or worse and 28:00 guys as their 2nd or 3rd men sometimes.

The facts are there, just look into it.

I'm not going to give you every person from the top 3 teams because you can easily look them up and I've fed you where to find it, but I'll give you one more.

Tsegay Samuel ERI

This was the 2nd man for the 2nd place team at this past world cross senior race:

Personal Best - Outdoor

Performance Wind Place Date

5000 Metres 13:16.59 Barcelona (O) 25/07/2009

10,000 Metres 28:20.96 Villeneuve-d'Ascq 30/06/2009

20 Kilometres 56:43 Birmingham, GBR 11/10/2009

Half Marathon 1:00:17 Birmingham 11/10/2009

Progression - Outdoor

Season Performance Wind Place Date

5000 Metres 2009 13:16.59 Barcelona (O) 25/07/2009

2008 13:24.14 Bilbao 21/06/2008

10,000 Metres 2009 28:20.96 Villeneuve-d'Ascq 30/06/2009

2007 28:21.68 Alger 19/07/2007

2006 28:58.09 Beijing (Chaoyang Sport Center) 16/08/2006

20 Kilometres 2009 56:43 Birmingham, GBR 11/10/2009

Half Marathon 2009 1:00:17 Birmingham 11/10/2009

He didn't make the final in Berlin that Chris and Teg did.

Perspectivation wrote:

[quote]Ecued wrote:

Once again, just do the research. This is ignorance. Sure they may have one or two guys, they also have guys who are 13:05 or worse and 28:00 guys as their 2nd or 3rd men sometimes.

The facts are there, just look into it.

And you are just plain ignorant if you think the typical 13:16 runner from Africa is the same as the typical 13:16 runner from the US. The US 13:16 runner has a pro contract, has run for four years or more at the university level and is most likey in his mid twenties and several years into his pro career. In African there are NO MID-TWENTIES 5/10K RUNNERS WITH PR's OF 13:16. Any such runner has long since stopped running by the time they hit mid-twenties after making zero cents at the sport.

The typical 13:16 African guy that shows up at world cross is 18-20 years old, ran that time on a dirt track and probably at altitude. Then they make a team and drop a bomb at a world xc or in a european meet. Do you really think the fifth guy from Team Uganda has better PR's than the fifth guy from team USA? Shit, the fifth guy from Uganda is probably running in shoes for the first time. Yet the US gets their ass handed to them by Uganda every year.

And as far as the example you provided, that fool has run a 1:00 half. How many 1:00 runners did the US have at its in March?

Okay, in hopes to demystify the level of talent which is actually at World Cross, here is a breakdown for you of the top 2 teams from world senior cross 2010.

1st place team kenya

1st place 12:51, 27:33 roads

4th place 12:58, 26:57

7th place 8:00 steeple

8th place 13:37, 27:17

9th place 7:46, 13:09, 27:58

19th place 7:41, 12:58

2nd place team eritrea

2nd place 13:11, 27:46

5th place 13:16, 28:20, 60:17 half marathon

15th place 13:13, 27:06

24th place 28:29, 63:27 half marathon

35th place 13:27, 28:19, 63:08 half marathon

39th place - no info on record

Also 3rd place ethiopia had nobody in the single digits but they do have great depth

10 Gebregziabher Gebremariam

17 Abera Kuma

20 Hunegnaw Mesfin

22 Azmeraw Bekele

25 Ayele Abshero

26 Feyisa Lilesa

Now potential U.S. team is:

Ritz 7:39, 12:56, 27:22, 60:00 half (24th in senior race and 3rd in jr, race before)

Rupp 7:42, 13:14i, 27:10

Teg 7:34, 8:07, 12:58 (5th at jr. worlds before)

Solinsky 7:36, 13:12, 26:59

Meb 13:11, 27:13, 61:00 half (finished in top 14 at world cross long course 3 times)

Hall 13:16, 28:07, 59:43 half, 2:06 marathon

Abdi 7:47, 13:13, 27:16, 61:07 half, 2:08 marathon (has been 11th and 15th at world cross before)

Webb 7:39, 13:10, 27:34

Goucher 7:34, 8:12, 13:10, 27:59 (6th on short and 27th on long course at World XC before)

That's leaving off guys like Lagat, Nelson, Vail (33rd previously in 2009) and others.

The core of that team would be Rupp, Ritz, Teg & Solinsky and those guys are all as hungry, fearless and probably talented as Kennedy in his prime with other veterans like Meb, Abdi & Goucher who are stronger than ever now with a lot of marathon training. Out of the 12 guys I mentioned Vail is the weakest and he's been 33rd at this event.

Okay, I'm convinced you hit your peak around Y2K and are stuck with the realities and mentality of that period.

You've first said that their teams are full of 26:50 guys, when I give you the information you then say it's only because they stop running before than can hit those marks or hit those marks on a dirt track at alititude? Look into it bud, it actually lists where they hit there marks.

Go ahead with that mentality, U.S. running has moved on without you.

Perspectivation wrote:

Go ahead with that mentality, U.S. running has moved on without you.

Why, did I just list Goucher and Webb as potential dreamtean members?

Ecued wrote:

Why, did I just list Goucher and Webb as potential dreamtean members?

Not sure why you did, but the reason I did is because they have both won the U.S. cross country championships, are both sub 28:00 10K runners and are both currently training.

Probably longshots to even race U.S. cross country, but it wouldn't surprise me either way.

somethin has me thinking you were one those who would have argued (and used e. african nonsense as proof of why) ritz couldn't run 12:56 and a white american would never be under 27:00, let alone one who hasn't run under 13:12 before! seen your types before and seen them out and proved wrong.

Perspectivation wrote:

I think most would agree that a team of Rupp, Ritz, Solinsky and Teg would be phenomenal xc team and our best ever in these days of E. African dominance.

In this day and age of Divas and Rock Stars, I just don't see it happening. It might be easier to get J-Lo, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston and Madonna together than to get the top American distance runners together for a cross country race.

Could you imagine the bedlam at the starting line? An artist's rendition how it might look:

We've seem this argument several times before. Same poster? First he states that all the e. african countries will have rosters full of sub 13 sub 27 runners. Then when the proof is provided otherwise he starts with the unsubstantiated excuses as to why most of their rosters aren't anywhere near it.

Look we get that not every single one of them has run in ideal conditions in europe, but a lot have. Of the others some of them run in spain, portugal, japan or at international championships.

How much different is that than Galen Rupp running in Beijing or Osaka in international championships where he was running within 5 seconds of a mark set in Palo Alto? Even Galens best mark to date is still less than 20 seconds faster than he ran in Osaka in a championship final in the humidity. It's not like all those E. Africans are going to run a minute faster in europe than they have in japan or spain.

malmo wrote:

Perspectivation wrote:

I think most would agree that a team of Rupp, Ritz, Solinsky and Teg would be phenomenal xc team and our best ever in these days of E. African dominance.

In this day and age of Divas and Rock Stars, I just don't see it happening. It might be easier to get J-Lo, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston and Madonna together than to get the top American distance runners together for a cross country race.

Could you imagine the bedlam at the starting line? An artist's rendition how it might look:

Image:

http://i39.tinypic.com/18c60g.jpg

Haha, pretty good malmo and you very well may be right, but the question remains, if we could would you pay $10 to see it and would you want to see it?

When was the last time Rupp, Ritz, Solinsky and Teg were uninjured at the same time? Ritz and Teg seem to be constantly recovering from something.But yeah the US should be able to role out a roster of guys that can run sub 27:30 which means if they all have good days they will be in the medal hunt.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, you are comparing the ideal US fantasy team, everybody healthy, everybody choosing to run, some back from the dead, to a REAL Kenyan team that ACTUALLY RAN! Even Malmo sees the improbability of this, and he knows more about running than you ever will.

Ritz is injured, Teg is injured. Yet on that miraculous day you expect all to be healthy.

You make this too easy.

Perspectivation wrote:

Haha, pretty good malmo and you very well may be right, but the question remains, if we could would you pay $10 to see it and would you want to see it?

I'd pay ten bucks even if I couldn't see it.

Who's driving the Batmobile, malmo?

deja vu wrote:

We've seem this argument several times before. Same poster? First he states that all the e. african countries will have rosters full of sub 13 sub 27 runners. Then when the proof is provided otherwise he starts with the unsubstantiated excuses as to why most of their rosters aren't anywhere near it..

deja vu wrote:

Even Galens best mark to date is still less than 20 seconds faster than he ran in Osaka in a championship final in the humidity. .

Guru, heal thyself.

I have not read much of this thread, but I am assuming someone has brought up:

You are asking for a "dream team" of top US runners. Fantastic, they'd do great I am sure. But what if Kenya or Ethiopia brought THEIR "dream team" ?? You act like the US is the only one's not brining their top guns. Kenya and Ethiopia's best runners are often on the roads, or focusing on track. Cross country has become super watered down because of $ on roads.

If Kenya or Ethiopia put all their marbles in the X-C basket, let's say there was a team prize of $10,000,000, and matched up against US dream team, I ain't betting a penny on the US.

You and others are saying: "hey man, what if, what if we got Hall to run? Damn, he's a stud! Imagine him in world cross? Remember his 59:43? His 2:06? Oh yeah. " (Ok, I made up those words, but that was the point).

Ok fine, Hall is great. 59:43 & 2:06:23.

So what if Kenya added THESE guys (all these guys ran = to or better than 59:30 or 2:06:20 in the last few years, some did both, and some did so SEVERAL times. How many of them ran world cross last year??? Any? 1 or 2?

Samuel Wanjiru KEN 58:33:00, 2:05:10

Patrick Makau KEN 58:52:00, 2:04:48

Sammy Kirop Kitwara KEN 58:58:00

Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 58:59:00

Evans Kiprop Cheruiyot KEN 59:05:00, 2:06:25

Paul Kosgei KEN 59:07:00

Jonathan Maiyo KEN 59:08:00

James Kipsang Kwambai KEN 59:09:00, 2:04:27

Bernard Kiprop Kipyego KEN 59:10:00

Wilson Chebet KEN 59:15:00

Moses Mosop KEN 59:20:00

John Kiprotich KEN 59:23:00

Francis Kibiwott KEN 59:26:00

Patrick Ivuti KEN 59:27:00

Robert Kipchumba KEN 59:28:00

Geoffrey Mutai KEN 59:30:00, 2:04:55

Robert Kipkoech Cheruiyot KEN 59:21a

Wilson Kiprotich Kebenei KEN 59:27a

Martin Lel KEN 59:30a, 2:05:15

Abel Kirui KEN 2:05:04

Duncan Kipkemboi Kibet KEN 2:04:27

Emmanuel Mutai KEN 2:06:15

Gilbert Kirwa KEN 2:06:14

Gilbert Yegon KEN 2:06:18

Robert Kiprono Cheruiyot KEN 2:05:52a

Vincent Kipruto KEN 2:05:13

William Kipsang KEN 2:05:49

So for every Ritz or Hall we add, they add TWENTY-SEVEN guys as good or better. Yes, read that again. sub 59:30 or sub 2:06:20 are better than Ritz and Hall. And ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL those guys above have done that in the last couple years. How many of them ran world cross last year?

Talk about dream team. So our dream team against their "C" team (which in the big scheme of things IS what they send, when you subtract all the talent I just listed that isn't there)....yeah, that would be a good match. But would it mean as much as you seem to think it would mean if we did well? No, not really.

But it would still be fun to watch.

Ecued wrote:

That's what's incredible about the Kenyan, Iritrean and Ethiopean teams. Every year some 26:50 runners are no-shows and every year they still kick ass.

Um, try 25 or so sub 59:30 or sub 2:06:20 guys are "no shows", ie , the don't even try cross, they are focusing on some big $ road race.

Every one of those guys I listed could be a stud in cross if he wanted to focus on it. But they don't.

Again, our dream team against theirs. Still excited? Bloodbath.

Lightning Bolt wrote:

Ecued wrote:

That's what's incredible about the Kenyan, Iritrean and Ethiopean teams. Every year some 26:50 runners are no-shows and every year they still kick ass.

Um, try 25 or so sub 59:30 or sub 2:06:20 guys are "no shows", ie , the don't even try cross, they are focusing on some big $ road race.

Every one of those guys I listed could be a stud in cross if he wanted to focus on it. But they don't.

Again, our dream team against theirs. Still excited? Bloodbath.

Unless these guys can actually all show up and manage to race in the 6 spots allowed I think we can do OK ;-) We've been 3rd before and that would be the goal again, that or better.

Don't know what's with the "we've gotta sweep everything and hold everyworld record at the same time or flip belly up", but theirs a chicken little in every group i guess.

I'd also add, how did Eritrea manage to beat Ethiopia, what with their great depth and all?

If we have 4 potential top 18 guys and we do, and 6 top 30, and we do, we have a shot.