Fastnbulbous wrote:
World XC medals both team and individual, have always been the ultimate measure of success in international competition, as the majority of the best compete. U.S. distance will never earn respect if they shy away from this crucial event.
Ok, I like world cross but you are being a little too dramatic here. Not many people give a shit about World Cross, it's at a crappy time and having it every year takes away from the importance.
trutheres wrote:
Sagarin wrote:They both have ridiculous talent. Comparisons are silly. Webb had more talent than either of them in high school, but hasn't figured out how to train consistently or doesn't have the head to race or both. Webb could have the ARs from the mile to the 5,000 if he really wanted to. Maybe the 10,000 as well. And then there's this kid named Rupp who ran a faster 5k than any of them as a prep.
Rupp ran that in like July or August going into college...he wasn't even close to high school.
That's true. But German ran his two-mile record after the prep season was effectively over in June and I believe Ritz's 13:44 was the same. Also, Webb's 3:53 came at the Pre meet in a "pro" race after the prep season was over as well. All of these guys are on another level. Webb might be the most talented of the bunch.
Sagarin wrote:
That's true. But German ran his two-mile record after the prep season was effectively over in June and I believe Ritz's 13:44 was the same. Also, Webb's 3:53 came at the Pre meet in a "pro" race after the prep season was over as well. All of these guys are on another level. Webb might be the most talented of the bunch.
Ritz ran a 13:51 at the beginning of track season.
haha, YO wrote:
Ok, I like world cross but you are being a little too dramatic here. Not many people give a shit about World Cross, it's at a crappy time and having it every year takes away from the importance.
Tell that to Bekele, Tergat, Mourhit, Ngugi, Lopes, Virgin, etc. Tell it to Ritz. The top runners in the world have consistently shown up to compete, because they know it's the most competitive race. There is no other race harder to win than World XC. That's why Ritz values his successful World XC race so much. And that's why he badly wants a medal in the senior race.
In terms of pure speed, where that is a talent, Webb has it. He ran 1:48/47 in hs. In terms of running very fast on minimal training, Fernandez has it. Webb arguably did more in high school (the mile record was close to the wr when Ryun set it, and Webb's time would have been among the American open leaders every year for the last 20 years, probably), but then he was trained very hard in high school, on top of a great swimming base, whereas Fernandez started running much later and it never sounded like he did much training until college. Webb ran 4:06 as a sophomore. Fernandez ran faster than that only as a senior, albeit in a great double at a hs only meet. Webb probably would have beaten Nelson's record in the 2M had he tried after Pre. He ran 8:45 unpushed indoors (Brannen was 2nd in 8:59, if memory serves).
Fastnbulbous wrote:
Tell that to Bekele, Tergat, Mourhit, Ngugi, Lopes, Virgin, etc. Tell it to Ritz. The top runners in the world have consistently shown up to compete, because they know it's the most competitive race. There is no other race harder to win than World XC. That's why Ritz values his successful World XC race so much. And that's why he badly wants a medal in the senior race.
Just because great runners have competed at World XC doesn't mean it's thought of in the same regard as track or even road racing. Bekele wasn't BEKELE until he stepped on the track and start destroying people. Geb ignored XC after a while and it hasn't hurt his legacy. He's still the greatest runner ever. I would argue Tergat is more well known for his oh so close runner-up finishes to Geb on the track than his XC titles.
If World XC is so important, why aren't our top runners killing themselves to qualify every year? And don't say it's because we get our butts kicked, we get our butts kicked in the Olympics and World Championships too but people fight tooth and nail for those spots.
DR went to Colorado, not Stanford.
Your problem is you're only looking at it from an American perspective. Last time I checked, the running world doesn't revolve around us. So far the U.S. is just an amusing sideshow to the main event.
There's all sorts excuses for us not having our shit together to field a top notch World XC team. Yes, there's more money in track and road racing. It comes down to scattered priorities, and no coherent strategy to create a real team. It's sad, really.
Fastnbulbous wrote:
The top runners in the world have consistently shown up to compete, because they know it's the most competitive race. There is no other race harder to win than World XC.
No, they haven't. Here are last years results.
1 88 Gebre-egziabher Gebremariam ETH 35:02 +0:00
2 263 Moses Ndiema Kipsiro UGA 35:04 +0:02
3 69 Zersenay Tadese ERI 35:04 +0:02
4 163 Leonard Patrick Komon KEN 35:05 +0:03
5 87 Habtamu Fikadu ETH 35:06 +0:04
6 162 Mathew Kipkoech Kisorio KEN 35:08 +0:06
7 161 Mark Kosgey Kiptoo KEN 35:11 +0:09
8 182 Chakir Boujattaoui MAR 35:12 +0:10
9 66 Teklemariam Medhin ERI 35:14 +0:12
10 92 Hunegnaw Mesfin ETH 35:16 +0:14
Tadesse was prepping for a more important race, the london marathon. We can do this most years, the depth is just not there at the top. You get great champions, the guys you mentioned. But the depth after maybe 5 drops like a rock.
If we could get World XC to have Wanjiru, Bekele, Shihine, Tadesse, Kipchoge, etc. year after year then oh yeah it would mean more than any other medal. Now you just don't have that and it hasn't been that way for a bit.
Last great one I remember was when you had Shaheen, Bekele and Kipchoge battling.
In the past decade dominated by Bekele, I think there's been more than one great race. Sure, there are off years where key runners are injured or don't run -- it happens in the Olympics too.
I don't disagree that most Americans don't give a shit about World XC. It would just be nice to see that change. XC will never be a big money maker though, given the technical issues with covering it properly and the remote locations. It's just cool to see how a lot of the top runners and record holders participate in World XC, obviously not for the money.
Track Fan wrote:
DR went to Colorado, not Stanford.
You're an idiot. That's not what the OP said, already went over this.
Ritz's high school XC credentials are worth more than German's over all running credentials. Who cares if German ran a world junior record? It's not a real record.
Fastnbulbous wrote:
Your problem is you're only looking at it from an American perspective. Last time I checked, the running world doesn't revolve around us. So far the U.S. is just an amusing sideshow to the main event.
There's all sorts excuses for us not having our shit together to field a top notch World XC team. Yes, there's more money in track and road racing. It comes down to scattered priorities, and no coherent strategy to create a real team. It's sad, really.
So let me get this straight - you truly and honestly believe the rest of the world thinks World XC is on the same level as the World Championships and Olympics? You really believe that?
cowboybuffalo wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that Ritz ran a 5k at the beginning of his season to qualify for US champs, and he ran at the US championships (in high school, unlike German). He also ran 13:51 and a 13:44. He wasn't simply focusing on the 2 mile record like German was. He wanted to make the US championships. Also, I do know that Ritz often ran 3-4 events multiple times a week in high school and didn't really focus on being fresh for huge record attempts.
Here's a cool quote I found by Ritz in high school.
"Well, nothing has came close to the world cross country champs," he confides. "I have just mostly had fun with this year. I think of it like this: 'It could all end tomorrow, so enjoy what you have and never take it for granted. And never forget to take an easy run for yourself once in a
while and just remember why you love to run.'"
mama mia wrote:
Here's another cool quote by Ritz from high school:
(On Jeff Nelson's 2-mile record) - "I have had my eye on that for two years and I really want it." He wanted it. He went for it. He never got it.
Quotes that make others look foolish are best!
That's not what I said. I said that the World XC is the hardest race to win. Many agree, others don't.
Fastnbulbous wrote:
That's not what I said. I said that the World XC is the hardest race to win. Many agree, others don't.
I agree with you in theory. You put the best marathoners, 10k/5k/steeple guys (maybe a few 1500 guys with strength) on the same course and it does become the hardest race to win. The way NCAA XC is. But it is not that way right now.
And so many people (outside East Africa) care that IAAF is phasing out the event.
Everyone who has coached in HS knows what cross country is.
I know that it never has 100% of ALL the best runners, but it's still the biggest overall field of accomplished runners compared to any other race.
Let's see how the race goes and compare with other races, like say, the World Championship 10,000:
1 402 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 26:46.31 (CR)
2 347 Zersenay Tadese ERI 26:50.12 (SB)
3 735 Moses Ndiema Masai KEN 26:57.39 (SB)
4 415 Imane Merga ETH 27:15.94 (PB)
5 730 Bernard Kiprop Kipyego KEN 27:18.47 (SB)
6 1221 Dathan Ritzenhein USA 27:22.28 (PB)
It's hard to compare XC results to road and track, but I think it's safe to say that if Ritz wants to medal in XC, he'll have to perform the equivalent of a sub-27 10K on the track. Even then, he could still end up barely making top 10. We'll see.
While we're talking about world XC, German got 11th as an 18 year old, and Ritz got 3rd...German didn't even have to race Bekele...
Yeah, except German was injured during that period of time. Dathan was able to train through.
One thing I want to point out is if Dathan was a couple days younger, he would have had the 5k junior record at 13:27. Rupp never would have set it. Although German would have eventually broken in, he and Derrick would not have been battling for it all season.