So the steady progression he's made for the past five years means nothing? He said in an interview after his xc win over Ebuya that he might have raced Euro xc champs a little tired. So he rests some and his fitness catches up with him. (Sorta like Ritz). You guys are so desperate to label someone dirty you'll never appreciate this sport.
VIPAM wrote:
hold the phone and PFKAsGobber
Ritz if I'm not mistaken ran sub 8:50 for 3200m in high school, Footlocker X Champion, 3rd as a high schooler at World Junior X Championship in which Sergio Sanchez was 83rd.
Ritz winning Footlocker doesn't mean shit. For all we know, Sanchez dominated the Spanish U18 X-C championships. Sanchez did run a 8:37 3k as a 17 year old at World Youth - meaning he was one of the top youth runners for Spain. If he ran that off no training, it would indicate some degree of potential.
VIPAM wrote:
Anna Willard and Jenny Barringer both were either NCAA Champions or USA Champions in college and both was world class steeplers running sub 9:26 BEFORE their big breakthru of 2009. Those athletes -as well as the Six athletes another poster stated- you mentioned all showed great potential before EACH of them made huge improvements. The ability to become top tier world class athletes was shown and didn't just come out of nowhere in 3 MONTHS!
Again, a bunch of collegiate championships don't mean anything on a world scale - particularly due to the dearth of data available on Sanchez. Looking at Barrigner's IAAF profile, prior to 2009 when she ran 3:59 for 1500m and 9:12 for s/c, the only mark of potential was her 9:22 s/c. Her dropping 10 seconds in the steeple over a year is practically the same as Sanchez dropping 11 seconds in his 3000m. Yet not a single peep of 'Barringer is doping'.
Willard is even more difficult, as her IAAF profile has nothing for her prior to 2006, with her 10:06 s/c. Then 2007 sees her drop to 9:34, 4:15 and 2:04.
VIPAM wrote:
Are you two guys serious? So your saying that for 11 years since his first season as a junior athlete Sergio Sanchez has not been training seriously? That he decide to train seriously after Sept/Oct 2009 and then 3 months later drop 16 seconds from his 2000m time and SO FAR 11 seconds from his 3000m?
Sergio Sanchez ran late in 2009
1500m....mid 3:40
5000m....13:21
then two - three months after his 2009 season ends he runs 4:52 in his season indoor opener.
While he wasn't world class his sub 7:50 pb showed he had been training seriously and although its possible he could eventually get down to 7:32. Noone would expect an athlete with Serigo's entire career performance background to do so LESS THAN 3 MONTHS after his last race in 2009 in which he ran a full season and not at least be suspect!
As stated by some other posters, your logic of 'well his times show he was training seriously, so he couldn't possibly improve dramatically by (from his own mouth) training more seriously' doesn't fly.
As I pointed out above, limited time progressions and data can paint misleading pictures of someone for whom you have no other information on. Maybe he was regarded in Spain as a prodigal young runner, who has been held back by a series of injuries, bad coaching or lack of motivation - we don't know that, because we aren't exposed to that.
My general point is not that he is 100% clean or anything - such a time progression definitely warrants suspicion (something he himself has acknowledged). My point is that from a particular perspective, many of the performances of our American athletes could be just as suspect, and this seems to have been missed by many.
a miler wrote:
My general point is not that he is 100% clean or anything - such a time progression definitely warrants suspicion (something he himself has acknowledged). My point is that from a particular perspective, many of the performances of our American athletes could be just as suspect, and this seems to have been missed by many.
Good point, but you forgot one thing, he doesn't speak English. Thus, he's cheater on letsrun.
I like the way snot-nosed Americans can deduce who is or isn't on drugs by looking at the iaaf.org biography of an athlete.
You guys have no idea what his training was like prior to this year.
WHAT. IF...
..he were a MONSTER talent off of crummy high school training, and just did basically that much work until last year, when he decided "damn, I'm not getting anywhere" and really stepped up his training game.
Then he would improve a ton.
What if he had never incorporated some elementary technique into his training that we all take for granted? Intervals, LSD, etc.
Then he would improve a ton.
What if he got shitfaced every night and smoked and partied and had a ton of sex then tried to wake up in the morning and train, only to give that up this year?
Then he would improve a ton.
These are all ridiculous hypotheticals but the point stands, none of you guys know.
None.
of.
you.
know.
I hate how the first thought that comes to mind after a big improvement is drugs. I admit, based on past jumps at this level, suspicion is warranted.
But run his ass through a barrage of every test imaginable, and if they come back + then f*** him, and if they come back - then shut up.
The real test will be time, and if he can keep replicating these marks.
Until then, power to you Sergio. Knock 'em dead.
Equinox2100 wrote:
You guys have no idea what his training was like prior to this year.
WHAT. IF...
..he were a MONSTER talent off of crummy high school training, and just did basically that much work until last year, when he decided "damn, I'm not getting anywhere" and really stepped up his training game.
Then he would improve a ton.
What if he had never incorporated some elementary technique into his training that we all take for granted? Intervals, LSD, etc.
Then he would improve a ton.
What if he got shitfaced every night and smoked and partied and had a ton of sex then tried to wake up in the morning and train, only to give that up this year?
Then he would improve a ton.
These are all ridiculous hypotheticals but the point stands, none of you guys know.
None.
of.
you.
know.
I hate how the first thought that comes to mind after a big improvement is drugs. I admit, based on past jumps at this level, suspicion is warranted.
But run his ass through a barrage of every test imaginable, and if they come back + then f*** him, and if they come back - then shut up.
The real test will be time, and if he can keep replicating these marks.
Until then, power to you Sergio. Knock 'em dead.
You sir are an idiot. The same "what if" arguments could have been said for dare I say Ramzi's absurd progressions. Ramzi could have easily said these things when he suddenly busted out a 3:30 and we all know the truth behind that story. You need to quite being silly with all these hypotheticals and open up your fookin eyes and realize the drug companies are/have been making bank and you Neanderthals keep buying into it.
Sanchez´s performances recently are from outer space, performances by Willard, Barringer, Vessey and Wurth Thomas aren´t. And Sancez is from Spain.
Serius wrote:
Ritz, Willard, Barringer, Vessey, Wurth Thomas much? And they all improved in the same year.
Doping is the norm in Spain.
Cases in point:
Operation Puerto -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_case#Admissions_and_evidence_of_doping
Even the spanish race walkers dope!
Sanchez is doped. Believe it.
he is clean in contrast to KB and RR.
yyy wrote:
he is clean in contrast to KB and RR.
No he's not, he's a god damn bloody doper. Yes,KB and RR are not clean either but this guy is so obvious. Wake up retard. Running is a business. A sport second. The saddest thing that's happening now is that the guys who use to be clean and would never dope are now compromising and doing it on a regular day bases. Integrity has gone completely out the window. You don't go from a C-level race filler for about nine years and all of sudden in one season drop two all time times in the 2000m and 3000m and expect everyone to believe it was all down to hard work ESPECIALLY when everyone knows how bad the drug problem is in our sport and the tests are completely unreliable. Again wake up and if this guy was Moroccan, all you guys who are supporting Sanchez would be singing a completely different tune. NEXT
Why don't you train like a Kenyan too? Then you might actually be a half decent runner instead of a typical letsrun troll obsessed with drugs drugs drugs!?!?!?
[quote]asdasd. wrote:
Doping is the norm in Spain.
quote]
Some (1 is too much in this case) Spanish athletes have been caught cheating. But Florence Grifith, Marion Jones, Calvin & Alvin Harrison, Tim Montgomery, Kelli White, Regina Jacobs, Melissa Myerscough, Jerome Young, Justin Gatlin, Antonio Pettigrew, etc. are not spanish athletes.
If doping were the norm, maybe more Spanish athletes would be in the top lists, and they are not.
Suspect numero uno wrote:
You sir are an idiot. The same "what if" arguments could have been said for dare I say Ramzi's absurd progressions. Ramzi could have easily said these things when he suddenly busted out a 3:30 and we all know the truth behind that story. You need to quite being silly with all these hypotheticals and open up your fookin eyes and realize the drug companies are/have been making bank and you Neanderthals keep buying into it.
Improving at a late age isn't unheard of, and no one would even bat an eye if Sergio were American or had improved from 8:00 3k -> 7:40 3k.
All in all, it's just a time. He just improved a lot. He has the reason to be suspect but there are SO MANY FACTORS in play here that indicting him without any proof or shred of evidence is absurd, and you all should rethink your position before you try and tarnish our sport further.
A lot of of the American posters on these boards appear to completely ignorant of the fact that there is no equivalent to the collegiate system of athletics in Spain. Athletics in Spain is practiced mainly through the club system which is outside of high school and college. It should not take much to work out that within such a system, the development of a Spanish athlete in the age range of 18-25 is going to be way behind that of an American athlete, such as Ritz, who has been training hard in a very competitive collegiate system during these ages. Many athletes in Spain, such as Chema Martinez (13-11 5k, 2-08 marathon), focused on their studies first up to age 25 and then started to train seriously. Taking this into context, big breakthroughs by Spanish athletes aged older than 25 years should really be no surprise.
VIPAM wrote:
hold the phone and PFKAsGobber
Ritz if I'm not mistaken ran sub 8:50 for 3200m in high school, Footlocker X Champion, 3rd as a high schooler at World Junior X Championship in which Sergio Sanchez was 83rd. Anna Willard and Jenny Barringer both were either NCAA Champions or USA Champions in college and both was world class steeplers running sub 9:26 BEFORE their big breakthru of 2009. Those athletes -as well as the Six athletes another poster stated- you mentioned all showed great potential before EACH of them made huge improvements. The ability to become top tier world class athletes was shown and didn't just come out of nowhere in 3 MONTHS!
Are you two guys serious? So your saying that for 11 years since his first season as a junior athlete Sergio Sanchez has not been training seriously? That he decide to train seriously after Sept/Oct 2009 and then 3 months later drop 16 seconds from his 2000m time and SO FAR 11 seconds from his 3000m?
Sergio Sanchez ran late in 2009
1500m....mid 3:40
5000m....13:21
then two - three months after his 2009 season ends he runs 4:52 in his season indoor opener.
While he wasn't world class his sub 7:50 pb showed he had been training seriously and although its possible he could eventually get down to 7:32. Noone would expect an athlete with Serigo's entire career performance background to do so LESS THAN 3 MONTHS after his last race in 2009 in which he ran a full season and not at least be suspect!
If Sanchez had been a Kenyan, who managed to have a false birth certificate stating he was 23 and a story that he'd not trained properly before this winter and was now working with some European based group and training like never before, half the posters on here would eulogize about what a great find he was. The other half would still suspect him of drugs. Lol
My point is, whether he's guilty or not, and I've yet to be convinced one way or t'other, if he'd been of a different race with a different age (and we know that some athletes in the past have been older than they'd claimed!) and had the "poor kid born at altitude" story as a backdrop, many who currently suspect him of drug use, wouldn't.
If we're going to be suspicious of Sanchez for showing little if any indication of greatness in his teens or early 20's, then why don't we treat all others in that group with the same way?
I remember Aouita came 34th in the World X-Country champs in '78 at 18; won by an English kid called Mick Morton, who went on to do nothing in the sport.
By his (Aouita's) 23rd birthday, his pb's were the following:
800m - 1:47.4
1500m - 3:37.4
5000m - 14:05.
No great shakes I think we'll all agree.
Within 8 months he was the World Championship bronze medallist at 1500 and had run a 3:32. In less than 2 seasons, his 5000m pb had improved by more than a minute.
Sanchez had run a modest 3:39.8 1500 (worth what? 5:02 for 2000m?) and an indoors 8:07.8 3000m at 21. He improves in the next 3 years to get his 5k pb down to 13:32 at 24. Substantially faster than Aouita's best time at that age. It takes another 3 years to improve enough to run 7:32 for 3000m.
So, it takes him 5 years to improve by about 10 seconds over 2000m (based on his 1500 pb at 21)
It takes arguably the greatest 5000m runner of all time about 21 months to improve by a minute at that distance.
Now I could have taken Aouita's name out of this and just called him athlete X, but I didn't want to insult anyone's intelligence. The fact is, given the above context, one athlete looks more likely to have used something than the other for his improvements.
Dick Beardsley did not show indications of being a good runner much less an elite runner in high school and then transformed himself into sub 2:09 marathoner.
Doped? Only if you think his dairy farm produced wonder milk.
deanouk wrote:
VIPAM wrote:hold the phone and PFKAsGobber
Ritz if I'm not mistaken ran sub 8:50 for 3200m in high school, Footlocker X Champion, 3rd as a high schooler at World Junior X Championship in which Sergio Sanchez was 83rd. Anna Willard and Jenny Barringer both were either NCAA Champions or USA Champions in college and both was world class steeplers running sub 9:26 BEFORE their big breakthru of 2009. Those athletes -as well as the Six athletes another poster stated- you mentioned all showed great potential before EACH of them made huge improvements. The ability to become top tier world class athletes was shown and didn't just come out of nowhere in 3 MONTHS!
Are you two guys serious? So your saying that for 11 years since his first season as a junior athlete Sergio Sanchez has not been training seriously? That he decide to train seriously after Sept/Oct 2009 and then 3 months later drop 16 seconds from his 2000m time and SO FAR 11 seconds from his 3000m?
Sergio Sanchez ran late in 2009
1500m....mid 3:40
5000m....13:21
then two - three months after his 2009 season ends he runs 4:52 in his season indoor opener.
While he wasn't world class his sub 7:50 pb showed he had been training seriously and although its possible he could eventually get down to 7:32. Noone would expect an athlete with Serigo's entire career performance background to do so LESS THAN 3 MONTHS after his last race in 2009 in which he ran a full season and not at least be suspect!
If Sanchez had been a Kenyan, who managed to have a false birth certificate stating he was 23 and a story that he'd not trained properly before this winter and was now working with some European based group and training like never before, half the posters on here would eulogize about what a great find he was. The other half would still suspect him of drugs. Lol
My point is, whether he's guilty or not, and I've yet to be convinced one way or t'other, if he'd been of a different race with a different age (and we know that some athletes in the past have been older than they'd claimed!) and had the "poor kid born at altitude" story as a backdrop, many who currently suspect him of drug use, wouldn't.
If we're going to be suspicious of Sanchez for showing little if any indication of greatness in his teens or early 20's, then why don't we treat all others in that group with the same way?
I remember Aouita came 34th in the World X-Country champs in '78 at 18; won by an English kid called Mick Morton, who went on to do nothing in the sport.
By his (Aouita's) 23rd birthday, his pb's were the following:
800m - 1:47.4
1500m - 3:37.4
5000m - 14:05.
No great shakes I think we'll all agree.
Within 8 months he was the World Championship bronze medallist at 1500 and had run a 3:32. In less than 2 seasons, his 5000m pb had improved by more than a minute.
Sanchez had run a modest 3:39.8 1500 (worth what? 5:02 for 2000m?) and an indoors 8:07.8 3000m at 21. He improves in the next 3 years to get his 5k pb down to 13:32 at 24. Substantially faster than Aouita's best time at that age. It takes another 3 years to improve enough to run 7:32 for 3000m.
So, it takes him 5 years to improve by about 10 seconds over 2000m (based on his 1500 pb at 21)
It takes arguably the greatest 5000m runner of all time about 21 months to improve by a minute at that distance.
Now I could have taken Aouita's name out of this and just called him athlete X, but I didn't want to insult anyone's intelligence. The fact is, given the above context, one athlete looks more likely to have used something than the other for his improvements.
What makes you think Aouita was clean? Because he never failed a test? LOL!!!!
Cheaters wrote:
Dick Beardsley did not show indications of being a good runner much less an elite runner in high school and then transformed himself into sub 2:09 marathoner.
Doped? Only if you think his dairy farm produced wonder milk.
Why is it so rediculous that he cheated? Give me one good reason? People on dairy farms don't cheat? Because he is such a swell guy? Because you met him once? Because he be a white American guy?
Floyd Landis was a fvken menonite for christ sake.
Dudes, leave me out of this. That 7:20 is legit. Clean as a whistle I was. I trained with Bob Kennedy so ask him. He'd run sub 4 minute miles in training and still be 20 meters behind.
No tricks here fellas, I was just one fast mofo.
Hello everybody.
I,m from spain.I know personally sergio sanchez.You can think(somepersons)what you want about him.In the past he had a lot of problems, in my opinion he is a worker and beside he is a good man and very friendly with everybody,in spain he has a lot of fans.
Here I put several videos where sergio is training.
"This is sergio sanchez....working",I hope that you like: