Great article on barefoot/minimalist running!

lol...hardly, with more than one hour difference over the distance!...lol... but your wit is charming nonetheless...

Plus i could never figure out the most reliable account if Bikila actually started barefoot in Rome or the shoes came off along the way...

answer this SOCCER Shoes what are they considered?????????????? BLAhBLah? world cup players are known to run upwards of 10k during a match; what would you consider soccer shoes?

runners like the use the specificity of training principle to explain why they run so much. so why not run in what you will race in. you use different muscles running in 12 oz trainers than you do when you run in shoes half the weight. and for people who say they have no arch, walk around barefeet or in sandals for a month or so and watch this problem become corrected. also when you look at foot problems, don't just focus on the foot. there is a thing called a kinetic chain. if you have weak hip abductors it will cause your knee to collapse and guess what your foot will collapse. mechanics are a very important aspect of running so by running in heavy shoes or 300 dollar orthotics you are admitting that you are content to run with subpar mechanics and thus not maximizing your speed or efficieny. so don;t be surprised when racking up miles and miles does not lead to any improvement.

I see more injuries in my store in the summer because people use flip-flops everyday. DO NOT use flips every day in the summer, use them occasionally.

[quote]maximalist: I see more injuries in my store in the summer because people use flip-flops everyday. DO NOT use flips every day in the summer, use them occasionally.[quote]

Here too one can acclimate gradually, by either wearing flip flops sparingly at first then more and more, or by starting with, say, Birkenstocks. Not that I ever had a minimalist summer footwear agenda, but I used to wear mostly Birks in summer and now have a couple pair of flip flops. One of which I sometimes jog in, like my hero:

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/04/Life/Catching_up_with_the_.shtml

maximalist wrote:

I see more injuries in my store in the summer because people use flip-flops everyday. DO NOT use flips every day in the summer, use them occasionally.[quote]michigan loves unemployment wrote:

You, as a store employee, cannot determine if these injuries are caused by flip-flops.

And besides, you look silly claiming to have that ability while demonstrating a lack of (elementary) understanding that correlation does not prove causation.

Oh, and when we are at topic:

my worst set of injuries to ankles was caused by expensive shoes with high heel. Once I swapped to 20$ shoes, problem vanished.

My musing regarding this concept certainly dosen't detract from my time in which I'm working to correct my own personal injuries.

And no, I was asserting that I ran with minimalist shoes on soft surfaces and didn't get injured. When I transitioned to more asphalt/pavement running I required more standard shoes to mitigate injuries.

No, their problems definitely were caused by wearing flip-flops. You, as Maximillian, cannot determine that they weren't caused by flip-flops. This, according to your rationale...

maximalist: No, their problems definitely were caused by wearing flip-flops. You, as Maximillian, cannot determine that they weren't caused by flip-flops.

And I cannot prove your real-life name is not Joey Jojo Shabadoo, Junior. Does that mean your real name really is Joey Jojo Shabadoo, Junior?

And if it is, why the hell would you not proudly post under your given name?

The injury thing couldn't possibly have anything to do with more people spending more time being active outdoors in summer, could it? No, surely you've controlled for that in your rigorous statistical analysis.

Correct.

nsmb, logician wrote:

maximalist: No, their problems definitely were caused by wearing flip-flops. You, as Maximillian, cannot determine that they weren't caused by flip-flops.

And I cannot prove your real-life name is not Joey Jojo Shabadoo, Junior. Does that mean your real name really is Joey Jojo Shabadoo, Junior?

And if it is, why the hell would you not proudly post under your given name?

The injury thing couldn't possibly have anything to do with more people spending more time being active outdoors in summer, could it? No, surely you've controlled for that in your rigorous statistical analysis.

Is your name nsmb, logician? Please stop and listen to yourself. Who gives a shit what shoes people wear? Humorless turd. Slit your wrists, and quick.

maximalist wrote:

Amazing how I always kick the minimalists' asses when i see them at races. Minimalists are always really slow. But at least they have really strong feet! And by the way, I am really fu cking slow.

You kick Takaoka Toshinari's ass?

He didn't say that he can beat every minimalist runner just every one he has encountered. He is getting at point here. Most minimalist are the types of runners who follow fads and those who are attracted to the back-to-nature aspect of the running barefoot. Therefore most of the minimalist are middle aged and slow.

Yes, thank you for driving my point home. Finally a voice of reason on here, like sunarm.

Dr philosopher wrote:

He didn't say that he can beat every minimalist runner just every one he has encountered. He is getting at point here. Most minimalist are the types of runners who follow fads and those who are attracted to the back-to-nature aspect of the running barefoot. Therefore most of the minimalist are middle aged and slow.

I've enjoyed this discussion so I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I intend this only as another anecdotal evidence and I don't wish to impose my beliefs on anyone I simply wish to share what I have learned.

I was skeptical of minimalism at first however over the course of time I continually found through much trial and injury that the lightest shoes worked best for longer distances.

I was a heel striker but forced myself to become a forefoot striker...end result injury. (2003) (After that I could go back and forth without injury)

Ran in Elite version 1 and 2 until version 3 caused severe pain in both Achilles tendons. They added slightly more to the shoe... Switched to air structure triax version whatever my memory isn't that great. After that I started having some PF problems in one foot. (2005)

The trainer said "get Orthotics" I responded "Hell No". Not that I had anything against orthotics but ever single person they treated was continuously injured. They told me don't run barefoot. So what did I do? I ran barefoot workouts...the best of my life on a grass track...PF was cured after a month and 4-6 barefoot workouts. Did barefoot workouts cure it? I believe so but cannot prove it.

2008 ran 2:36 marathon

In 2009 I developed much more severe PF (both feet this time) with no grass track to workout on anymore. I was in pain ever single morning and in pain the first mile of each run. I'm 24 with a running streak since Jan of 2005. Tried strassburg sock...mild relief..still in a lot of pain. Ordered a pair of five fingers kso... after 1 month of a few recovery 3-4 milers in them weekly, PF was 95% gone.

Side note: other unexpected benefits of five fingers is that my Achilles tendon that has been sore/stiff for 6 years feels 90% better.

Still don't know if I could train in five fingers at high mileage because I had a groin injury partly from running in normal shoes and partly from a drinking incident...yeah don't ask its just now to the point where I can run more than a few miles.

I plan on doing two marathons in them the second being Boston just to find out how fast I can go in them. If it works great if not at least I know how to cure Plantar Fasciitis.

Give it another 2 years and I'll let yall know how the experiment goes.

I started WEARING 5 Fingers this summer. NOT RUNNING but WEARING them around as my normal shoes. I slowly worked into them with a few hours a day. Eventually I was able to run up to 10 miles a week barefoot ON GRASS. Even that I worked into. Now that it's cold I have a tough time wearing my 5 Fingers and running some miles barefoot.

This Fall I ran the entire cross season uninjured for the first time ever and had no problems with my feet ever being sore. Now that I haven't had a chance to go barefoot for a while my feet have been sore and I've had a decent amount of aches and pains. I have team mates who wear them around too and they've been injury free for the first time in a long time.

I think the problem people have with barefoot running is that they jump straight into it. You have to realize that your feet are relatively weak and you must build those muscles first or YOU WILL GET INJURED.

Dr philosopher wrote:

Most minimalist are the types of runners who follow fads and those who are attracted to the back-to-nature aspect of the running barefoot. Therefore most of the minimalist are middle aged and slow.

What study is this based on? How did the survey collect data from the millions of runners in Japan?

There is a direct correlation between minimalist shoes and the fact that American runners were faster in the 1970's.

Of course they didn't have to reinvent themselves after Nike sabotaged running (with the Nike Air, Nike Shox) in the 1990's.