Races should only be for FAST people

I'm dead serious when I ask this:

When did "because it's fun" cease to be a valid reason for any recreational activity?

call me jack wrote:

We're not getting it here.

I'm not taking a moralist or elitist stand on whether people should be allowed to race or not. That's obviously their choice and I'm not here to slash their free will.

What I do want to hear from those people is what they find enjoyable about racing. It's a psychological investigation if you will. Call it intellectual curiosity even!

Hey, maybe I can learn something from these mid-packers, cause if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't quit running, but I'd think twice about toeing the line.

To compete is to strive after first place, or ATLEAST to go against oneself.

Well,if you are fair dinkum in your above comment I will try to explain what I find"enjoyable about racing" as you put it.

It is the same,at 75yrs of age,as excited me at 20yrs of age.That is COMPETITION and finishing ahead of as many fellow competitors as I can.In all those years of racing from 100m to marathon I have managed first place a mere handful of times but I have won many races down the field against fellow competitors,although the numbers behind me these days are few.

You are either a racer or not.One sees many runners in races who are obviously not racers,they enjoy running in races for many other personal reasons and fair enough.

The time you post is merely a measure of the effort you put into competing against others,nothing more or less.

Purely my opinion.

call me jack wrote:

To compete is to strive after first place, or ATLEAST to go against oneself.

But the rest is bullshit. It ain't about competing, winning, running a lifetime PR, getting better over time,

You're definition for competiting isn't accurate. Competing has opposition: rivals or competitors. Going against yourself is not competing, it's a touchy-feely personal improvement thing. Going for first place is a subset of competition, but only because you are looking to beat your rivals or other competitors. The guys looking to beat and DESTROY their friends and RIVALS the next race back in 10th or 15th are absolutely competing, and as an aside, also fun. Just like the competitions between after work league soccer, basketball, baseball (added again, since you didn't respond to my post at the bottom of the first page).

Just curious - have you ever been in a race that you didn't win, but still enjoyed it? Everyone I know, including myself, has. If you haven't, then you are the one without legitimate reasons to race. Winning isn't the only way to get something positive from competition.

Here's a really random thought for you.

I like racing. And I'm a female, which means that my chances of being the outright winner of even a local 5K are pretty small.

I also like gaming, specifically World of Warcraft.

I've come to realize that what I enjoy about racing is similar to what I enjoy in WoW -- the opportunity to "level up" via hard work. I may not win the race, but when I set a new PR, the sense of accomplishment is very similar to hitting a new level in WoW. The fulfillment is in the progress and the journey.

Darkwave,

It's clear you jumped into this mid-stream.

We've already established that a given runner, whose lifetime PR's are unreachable due to a new set of lifestyle factors, cannot possibly PR

So your mention of a "sense of accomplishment by PRing" is unmerited

zzzzzz,

your view of competition is stinted I believe. I cannot "compete" with Meb, Dathan, or Ryan Hall even if they line up as my opponents or rivals on the starting line.

I can only compete against those I have a reasonable shot at beating. Thus, any mid-packer is at best, EXERTING himself to the fullest, but certainly not VYING for the win

curiocurio,

Unfortnately, I never enjoyed a race I didn't win. In 4 years, I've won about 30 or so races, and finished 2nd, 3rd, and 4th innumerable times. But every one of those losses stung like a mother. I came away feeling dejected and disillusioned about training. Winning is the only thing as Lombardi says. He was right.

craigmac4h,

The idea of something being fun, CAN be a valid reason. The problem with your statement is that it lacks in-depth analysis. We don't want to state the obvious here. So, what exactly about racing ( with no shot at winning) is fun?

Shorter, when asked why he ran so fast, once said that he did so bc it was a lot funner to run fast. ( loosely quoted )

The reason slow people run is simple, they are trying to fill a void. Much like anyone with anything. That 35 year old man pays $30 to grab an age group award on a lucky day because at the end of the day it might be all he has. I've ran 3:57 for 1500m, high schoolers run that. Why do I run? Because If I didn't all I would do is think about being out and running. Sure he may train with a group, and he might not care about the medal. He might just simply not have an adequate understanding of what it means to race. Who knows, he's slow. Unless it's on a Track the only time he concerns you is at the start, (assuming you are "fast") by whatever mediocre and frivolous constraints you use.

PS. What do we do about the hundreds of Collegians who stand ZERO chance of EVER winning, EVER.

Darkling,

You make some good points. I couldn't agree more that the slow people are just trying to fill a void. But upon realizing that, why would you want to continue such a saddened state of affairs.

And what to do about the collegians? Well, why do you think there is such a high drop out rate among college runners? I don't mean DNF, I mean the number of guys who never run seriously again after their days on a college team. I think they get to taste what the competition is really like, and afterwards they come away with a shitload of disappointment.

Lucky for me, I didn't run in college. I picked it up later and my first taste of success was on the local scene. been hooked to winning ever since, and the feeling never gets old. But if that ability were taken from me, I wouldn't see the point behind racing.

call me jack wrote:

I don't see the point behind racing if you're not going to contend for the win ( I mean local races )....The medal..that's silly...the T-shirt...that's way overpriced...the people...why not just run with a club or large group regularly...the time...why would that be relevant if you're obviously not as fit as you could be.

What utility do you derive from winning a local race? None. You got from point A to point B before some arbitrary other people and received a silly medal. So what? By your logic there is no point in racing, period.

More seriously, you obviously race as a status elevator. That is your motivation and that is fine. To assume it is the only possible motivation betrays your naivete.

I race because it is fun, because it brings together old and new friends, because I push harder in a race, because the entry fee is insignificant, because it gives me sometime to talk about and blog about - it's an experience. I race because doing so gives me pleasure, and pleasure has utility.

You don't know the definition of competition then. The Merriam-Webster definition of competition is "(1) the act or process of competing: rivalry (2) a contest between rivals." The definition of competing is "to strive conciously or unconciously for an objective (as position, profit, or prize)."

You are right that if you line up with Meb, Ritz, and Ryan, you are not really competing against them because they are too fast to be your rivals. You wouldn't be competing for the ultimate prize in the race. However, if you don't have a defeatist attitude, you would be competiting against the other people going about as fast as you in that race. Mid-packers don't have to vying for the win to be competing. They only have to be striving for position over their rivals. A win is one possible end result of competition, but just because you have no chance to win doesn't mean you aren't competing.

Let's say you are in 15th position in some more competitive race, running fast for you. Someone who has been yo-yoing back and forth with you during race blows by you near the finish. Lets say this guy happens to be your brother-in-law too. Are you saying that you wouldn't care? Because, hey, it's only 15th place? If so, then it seem like you only know how to compete when you can cherry pick races. If you feel like "DAMN, I'm not gonna let ___ beat me" and then give it ALL you have, then whether or not you get 15th or 16th, then you are a competitor.

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest an idea. Enter a race where you don't cherry pick. The harsh reality of our world is there will always be someone faster. You can't win every race you enter, in fact, you can't even compete to win everyone you enter. I don't know how good you are, but I would be willing to wager that you run in some pretty weak fields. Just because you win a 5k in 15:30 doesn't mean that race held significance. Winning in a slow time is, guess what, still slow. 15:30 is a joke, 15:00 is a joke, 14:30 is a joke. 13:59 only begins to scrape the edge of what it takes to be "good". Now that's a fact.

Why does it need an in-depth analysis, jack?

I don't need a more complicated reason to run than "because I enjoy it."

I suppose, deep down, there could be some intensely complicated psychological need that strenuous training and racing fulfills, but I don't really give a damn. When I race well, I feel good. The "racing well" feeling isn't dependent on place or time- it's affected by those things, but not wholly dependent on them. I like the giddy nervousness before a race, I like the feeling of taking off the last 300m and trying to pass people, and I like the pleasant exhaustion knowing "yeaaah, I gave it hell today."

I run because it's fun. I race because it's even more fun. If you can't understand that, why is the onus on me to explain it? Not everything is logical and clearly reasoned out. It sounds to me like you had some serious inferiority problems. You only felt good when you won? Sounds like a very stressful way of looking at a career to me.

I mean, why do we do anything if the odds are infinitesimal that we'll never be the best? I'd be a fool to say I'm the greatest chef in the world-- but I like when I make chili and my roommates go "jeez, man- this is good chili." I might never set a world record, but I still like the feeling of a well run race. Nothing more complicated than that.

racing is our Fight Club. Why did the guy who lost the fight seem so elated when he just got the shit kicked out of him?

its primal, simple. its tough to explain, but the best analogy i found is its our fight club. its our small battle.

PhoenixRising wrote:

Just because you win a 5k in 15:30 doesn't mean that race held significance.

....for you it doesn't

but for the winner, its always good.

Newsflash - the world does not revolve around your opinions. People have many reasons for various undertakings.

There are a LOT of people who think that anybody who does not make 7 figures is a complete, absolute joke. If you remind them that there are people who spend years trying to run as fast as possible around a 400m oval...they would not believe it. People who waste their time doing that are complete losers.

Contempt is not unknown outside this sport, pal.

Hey Jack,

In your delirium of pseudo-omnipotence, it is quite obvious you are trying to take everybody on in this thread, just like you probably do when you race. And by doing so, with some talent and some skill on your part as "thread organizer", setting yourself up for an automatic "win."

I hope for your sake that you will understand from this little experiment, where people have been very generous with their experience, ideas and opinions - not unlike you, but with an infinitely more agreeable tone - how it is not about winning, but about participating.

If this had remained a thread of "1" you would have won a race of "1" - id est, you would have lost. And when you began this thread, did you not "toe" up to it and see how many fellow runners would join you, just to look at you win? And we do like a winner, don't we?

This is why WE all race. To provide an identity even for people like you.

Next time you come second or third, think of the privilige you have to have been that close to the winner. And by all means, don't stop racing.

Because if the rest of us didn't race you wouldn't have anybody to impress on race morning. There would be nobody watching as you do your gay little striders in your too-short shorts, trying to look tough as though you were preparing for battle. Those races can really be tough, all that heavy breathing and tired legs at the end.

In fact, I never thought about it until now, but making fun of douchebags like you is one of my favorite parts of race morning.