Michigan State XC

There are numerous guys that went to MSU as good/great runners and didn't achieve jack shit due to partying. Thorson, Voss, Sprangel, Bills, etc... just to name a few. I don't know what it is about EL, but that place just seems to suck em in and spit em out.

I am sure the XC team has access to vans/cars/transportation that can take them out to Lake Lansing (easy to get miles in there) or Hawk Island which has trails that aren't paved btw (likewise, just have to watch out for the Lansing locals), hell there are awesome trails in Okemos off of Dobie Rd.

While MSU isn't getting Footlocker quality recruits there are plenty of good runners that go there with plenty of potential. Tons of other schools turn them into AA's, why can't MSU?

It's a cop out to say the area doesn't have a good running scene. I have lived plenty of other places after EL area and i have to say EL has been one of the best.

If it is the belief of the program that it is a "below average environment" then they are f***ing stupid and might as well just scrap the whole program.

No offense to any of those guys, but, other than Voss, none of them were top level talent. One thing that they do have in common is that they all came from high-level high school programs. These are the type of athletes that have tapped more of their potential in high school than the average runner. But still these guys are not the type of recruits that Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan, and Indiana are receiving.

You're probably right, they do have access to vans, but not everyone is interested in driving 40-60 minutes round trip per day for a run. So my guess is they run from campus and hit up the roads/sidewalks, which would qualify as a below average running. At the same time, from Dec through March they run on the roads because they have no other choice (snow).

You hit the nail on the head, they are not getting footlocker caliber recruits and that's the issue. Occasionally you get an athlete who goes from a decent high school guy to a college stud, but that's not the norm. Most of the guys who run well in college were good high school runners as well.

If you think that EL has some of the best running you have seen maybe you should get out of Michigan for a while. Wisconsin and Indiana have trails right out of their doors, while Ohio State and Michigan have much better parks within driving distance. Did I mention these schools also get better recruits?

I can't tell you whether or not the program realizes their limitations, but I just don't think it's fair to pretend that EL is this Runner's Paradise where national caliber recruits go to party instead of run. In terms of talent and resources, they are finishing right about where they should be.

Voss was a stud state and national level. Rest of those guys were pretty high state level. MSU is 99% instate runners. Ohio State is similar and they produce results. Knoll is from MI, Sherer is from MI. Those are the last two big guns. Last guy who had any semblance of XC success was Marsh and he is a local. To get FL caliber recruits you have to start somewhere, and it is not impossible to churn out some good instate kids, and well, Drenth hasn't done that at all.

If you are going to school to run you can sacrifice 40mins a day to travel for a workout. Suck it up.

Dude, I am out of MI and have lived in other midwest cities, in the south and internationally and EL is not a terrible place to run by any means. Yes, there are much better places, but I think you are selling it a bit short. It's not a mecca or haven of trails, but you can still get it done there. All the other Big Ten schools have to deal with the same shitty winter weather, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I think it is quite obvious that MSU doesn't give a rip about Track/XC. Remember Jenison Fieldhouse and how shitty that was/is (haven't seen it in about 6 years), but they never held meets there for a LONG time. Same thing goes for their outdoor track. For years it was unuseable and just part of the path to get to Spartan Stadium on saturdays. Finally, the redid it but I think it was more for the benefit of the field hockey team.

Those two instances I mentioned should show that MSU Ath. Dept. is half-assing running. Ron mason was only interested in the big ticket sports and maintaining his pristine snow colored hair, very Gene Keady-esque.

You run/ran for MSU?

Will they beat Kent State at Regionals? I say they don't and then excuses are over.

This thread reminds me of the Hansons bashing threads that take place every couple months.

The problem is simple. MANY PEOPLE DO NOT WORK HARD ENOUGH AND WANT SOMEONE TO BLAME.

Failures in Spartanville are for 2 reasons and neither of them have anything to do with coaching.

1. Talented athletes that are not willing to work hard enough want to blame someone other than themselves.

2. Athletes that are not talented enough want to blame the coach for their lack of natural talent.

i agree with this last post.

Few things, recruiting has probably gone down. Michigan's quality of distance running has declined the past 3 years. back in 2000-2006 there were numbers of solid athletes who could compete at national levels, now you are seeing it easier and easier to become all state in xc, heck all state this year in d2 was like 70th place back in 06.

few examples, that support talent that doesn't work. ryan grau at emu, runs a sub 415 mile in hs, doesn't run in summers or off seasons now at EMU and runs off of talent in the season. msu ers will see similar things.. some talented people don't have the drive or heart to be a champion in college, other non talented runners may have the drive but still need to lose 10 lbs cuz they like to eat donuts all the time.

MSU's program is on a down cline partially to the lack of ability within the state at the high school level. even now, there are lots of quality athletes looking outside the state rather than in the state now.

Just curious, why did Stephan Shay transfer to BYU?

None of the programs in the state are good this year. U of M is down, EMU is no good this year, CMU has been nothing close to what it was 6 years ago (they are a joke right now). I think you could make the argument that GVSU is the top team in the state right now.

Used to be in michigan, I agree with you. Looking through this years state results it is way slower than say 2004 where a 15:45 was 30th place in D1.

It's just said to me because a lot of the top runners go to instate schools and we never hear from them again. I don't know whether its due to the runner, program, or coach but regardless it is a shame.

What a cop-out of an explaination!Walt's job is to recruit student-athletes that are talented enough, motivate them, and have a command of training principles such that runners improve and the team is competitive in cross country and track.

After 5 years, it is more than fair to score him and assign a grade of poor on the men's side.

I guess my previous pos did not explain the next level.

Each of these 2 groups then have an agenda. Message boards are way easier to throw blame toward the coaching than it is to call yourself out.

Walt has screwed up in one major way. He has recruited shit guys for the last 5 years. Most of which are lazy. All have no idea what it takes to be a collegiate runner. If you are currently a MSU Spartan, I am talking about you.

MSU can't out-recruit U of M. The best in state guys go to AA and I can't blame em for that. How do you make the 2nd tier runners in the state better than the first tiers?

Capital Area Runner wrote:

I mean people go to Wisco to run, people go to MSU to party then run.

Unrelated (possiblity related) note: What the hell happened to Dustin Voss in college!?

Actually, this is related.

If you guys are going to complain about bad cross country coaching, you should be talking about MICHIGAN. They have recruited some of the highest talent in the nation and I have yet to see any of them have a decent race....Lex Williams is the only one who comes to mind....when he can stay healthy for half a season...

The Michigan state meet was slower this year because of mud and high winds. Not a good indicator.

dgfdfsgdfddg wrote:

Capital Area Runner wrote:

I mean people go to Wisco to run, people go to MSU to party then run.

Unrelated (possiblity related) note: What the hell happened to Dustin Voss in college!?

Actually, this is related.

So, what did happen to Dustin Voss?

dgfdfsgdfddg wrote:

The Michigan state meet was slower this year because of mud and high winds. Not a good indicator.

bs, with the one d3 girl was it who ran hecka fast breaking a state record no? people run fast on crappy courses all the time, either way, if you want to blame the course and conditions, compare portage results back to 05 results and before. HUGE difference.

no excuses for running slow, you ran what you ran. put up the top 7 runners from 05 to the top 7 runners int he state in 09, 05 might get close to a sweep.

nevertheless, i agree that drenth could be doing a bit better with the program than what it is at. but as a whole, walhurst and the cmu coach and goodridge or goodrich at emu would probably admit he can do better as well.

Agreed with the above poster that GV may be the best team in the state at this point in the season. I think msu beat them earlier on, but right now if i was a high schooler and wanted to improve big time, I'd look into GV. look at the so so runners that turn into something new!

So, what did happen to Dustin Voss?

rumor has it he liked to party. he stayed pretty much the same level all throughout college.

used to be in michigan, good question about shay...

why did shay transfer?

Have you ever met any of the Shay's? How about the old man? Why do you think Ryan left Michigan? To get as far away as possible.

There simply isn't the talent in Michigan anymore, and recruiting power - to all of them - is dropping fast. There is a reason why so many "other" schools are taking in Foreigners (even mediocre African ones) and better Americans as they have an upside to developing teams that might be competitive. Michigan runners aren't going to cut it anymore.

For some reason, everyone in Michigan thinks they'll be another Ritz. There is a reason the top guys go elsewhere (ND, Colorado, etc.) - Michigan is no longer the "running mecca" that it once was, even in HS, and even that was more in the minds of some people than reality.

In the big 10 it's all about Wisco, and has been for years. At Mich it's about developing foregin middle-distance runners (Sullivan, Willis, Brannen, Ellerton, etc.) which has taken the focus away from local guys, and everytime a blue-chipper (like Mike Woods) doesn't develop, then people start to wonder. That being the case, why would anyone expect things at MSU to be better? Back in the '70's (Mavis, Lindsey, etc.) it was a place people wanted to go, now it's a place where people have to go given little other choice. Not exactly the right mindset to develop top teams. The rest of the conference is almost interchangeable, or just plain weak.

If I were Drenth, I would focus on developing the individuals who were talented enough and motivated enough to actually accomplish things in the sport, individually, and forget the team crap - unless his job is on the chopping block. A couple of individuals who ran well might convince talented recruits to take a look and thence build a team from talent. There are still a few "diamonds in the rough" out there, but very few given the media (and internet) attention these days. HS is still the double-edged sword of doing the work to get noticed, but not so much that College development is a washout.

Haters,

You may send a letter of congratulations to Coach Drenth and wish them luck at Nationals. Second in the Region.