If Bill McChesney holds the 5k, and 10k records at Oregon, Why is Pre the dominant idol?

Agreed, there is a great book there to be written, but I doubt it ever will be written. To tell the truth would be controversial. Steve McChesney hints at it / states it in a good political way (all things considered) in the old McChesney thread.

That's as far as I'm going.

Hey Bob, great story.

That was before my time a tad, not sure we met, but we probably did.

Welcome to LR.com...BE CAREFUL, it is often a jungle full of ahole's here. But, threads like this, and stories like yours' make it barely worthwhile ;-)

pre841,

You've got mail.

Oregon 76 wrote:

Well when the Oregon Relays came along one saterday afternoon, who was standing beside me on the starting line for the six-mile (not 10,000), but this skinny blond kid in a purple uniform. I was a junior in college, in PR shape, had been on the NCAA Cross Country Championship Team the previous Fall and I couldn't shake him in that race. We hammered together until 200 to go and he out kicked me, 28:58.8 to 29:01.0.(My PR, to this day)

I still have pictures from that race we ran at Hayward Field. This is my first-ever posting on Let's Run, but I thought someone (maybe Steve) might enjoy it. Bob "Sumo" Hensley, Oregon 76

Hey Bob,

Nice story. You are right, Chapa and Hulst posted 6M, 10k records that spring at the junior nats. (Billy was there to.

I wonder if it's possible to see/get copies of those photos?

It's possible I could add them to some of the McChesney shots I have.

Dan

Ryan Foreman wrote:

In hindsight that late 70s to early 80s period is pretty amazing when you see how well those times have held up. I kind of took it for granted at the time.

Rudy Chapa is another guy who was great in his day but who is kind of forgotten about.

The irony is that Alberto Salazar is the guy who became an American household name. Yet he is the one guy I honestly did not enjoy watching run at Oregon even though he was great. His form seemed ugly to me and of course he had little speed. There was just nothing that dramatic about Salazar on the track. At least in the races I saw in person. The marathon was definitely the right event for him.

I've thought about this one for a few days, and I am going to address it.

The inspiring thing about Alberto was his drive and toughness. And his form, while it was funky, he was as efficient as he could make his awkward bod go -- and that in-it-self was inspiring.

Alberto pretty much inspired my whole post college long distance running career. I would just visualize his efficiency...and iron out the bounce in my form...and hammer out a 20 miler.

I thought they were both Chinga Su Madre's and deserved to both be called winners. I loved them but they couldn't live up to Benny Rodriguez my love:)

Billy's Roommate: once and once only I'm turning on the email link here. Would be very interested in getting in touch with you - was a close friend of Bill's through his Minnesota connection.

Squid wrote:

Billy's Roommate: once and once only I'm turning on the email link here. Would be very interested in getting in touch with you - was a close friend of Bill's through his Minnesota connection.

J,

--You've got mail.

(You can turn off the email link now ;-)

Hey Dan,

Thanks for your great effort on your website... I've gotten lost for many an hour looking at the pix!

I visit it about twice a year to see the old gang in action...back in the day.

Less than 1% of people in the state ever heard of that dead drunk fool. Clyde Drexler is the most famous sports star in the state. Meth is king in Oregon.

Billy s Roommate wrote:

Hey Dan,

Thanks for your great effort on your website... I've gotten lost for many an hour looking at the pix!

I visit it about twice a year to see the old gang in action...back in the day.

You're welcome.

It was great to get some stuff on Billy and South Eugene to honor those records with some shots instead of just looking at a printed list.

Enjoy.

There is no denying Alberto's drive and toughness. He may even surpassed Pre in that regard. In Kenny Moore's book on Bowerman he mentions there were only 3 runners that Bowerman ever saw that shouldn't have been runners but became elite runners anyway (he called them Bumblebees). One was Salazar for his "low, choppy back-kick stride". I'm definitely not criticizing Alberto. But he was almost like a running version of an honest, straight forward Richard Nixon. Even if what he did was all good, the whole style had a coarseness to it that made a part of you recoil a little bit. Also, I don't know what gave Salazar such a great drive. But I never felt there was a pure love or joy of running with him like you felt when you saw Pre and even McChesney. But then Pre and Bill may have been the exceptions in that regard. And at that end of the day, results are results, and Salazar's record speaks for itself. Thanks for you feedback on that.

I can see why others would think Alberto "coarse," back in that day -- and he has taken himself to task for that in "Duel in the Sun." It is just hard for me to paint him that way because, being on the team, you see the guy a lot, and you see all sides of the person. I saw him as driven, that is for sure, and maybe overly serious, but I really just thought at the time he was young, shy, conservative, and not all that talkative. But he wasn't silent, he wasn't all serious -- he joked around as much as the rest of us -- and on a team with Centrowitz senior (the mother of all bullsh*t detectors) and various other jokesters...you were not going to get away with being overly serious too long. As Salazar shares n "Duel," he definitely had a temper (but Jeff Nelson aside) I don't remember anyone taking offense, or anyone talking about Alberto negative when he wasn't around.

I think he enjoyed running, that it was his bliss, it was also his obsession. Partially he had a poker face, so hard to see him as joyful while doing it, but he ran so much he had to be enjoying it on some level...and look at the pictures when he "finally" got to win a race (over the ringers than the older Kenyans were in those days), and in his marathon successes.

I don't know that they would see it that way, but my impression was that both Rudy and Alberto were quieter than the rest of the team... Not sure if it is/was a Hispanic thing, or the fact that there were so many guys on the team that the talkers were sucking the oxygen outa the air already ;-)

My gut impression of those days was that he was driven, a little overly serious, religious, maybe a tad shy, and conservative (as a person). I never had a negative impression of him though. Again, he could joke around with the guys as much as anyone. For me, there was a much broader context than just races etc.

As to things like Jeff Nelson's story, I am sure I saw Alberto have words with someone for racing in practice -- and it is too bad that Nelson was (and I mean this in an objective way) so sensitive that his feelings were hurt and he remembered it a long time... But, in context, it was the job of the team leaders to reinforce Dellinger's rules. They were expected to show leadership -- and unless I miss my guess I bet Dellinger actually liked it that Alberto called someone out.

Dellinger, bte, was not the kind of coach to yell or scream. He'd just tell you real directly to "slow down" or "knock off the racing" (typically at the end of an interval, guys would occasionally get full of themselves and surge to the head of the group...probably to be expected on occasion with that many excellent, competitive guys).

There could be carping, or yelling in those situations in practice -- but I never remember anyone holding a grudge and still being pissed or hurt after practice, or in the locker room. Clearly it happened for Nelson, but I think for the rest of us, it blew over by the next interval...cos you had to focus, and then you usually warmed down with one of your buddies, and frankly, we mostly talked about what college young men that age talk about...women and sex.

On all my runs with Billy, I can tell you the three main topics were Running (legendary stories of his high school teams hijinks, his running family, future goals and dreams, he pretty much never told racing stories, or relived past glories). Other than that we talked about women, women, and women. (Welcome to being a young dude in college ;-).

What beautiful form.

What a nice video, thank you all for sharing your memories. Great stuff.

His win at the Bislett Games was amazing, gutsy race. The joy in his victory lap and the way the crowd embraced him was very charismatic and wonderful to watch.

48 wrote:

His win at the Bislett Games was amazing, gutsy race. The joy in his victory lap and the way the crowd embraced him was very charismatic and wonderful to watch.

Is there video anywhere? It would be great see more...

I stopped reading letsrun months ago because it is sometimes caustic and people with little knowledge post as if they have inside information.

I have always feared posting for the above reasons.

But lately a friend of mine told me about this thead. So I have read what you all have said and I will add a bit. Bill was my dear brother so forgive me if I go off topic. But running was always about family and friends to him so I feel that all who read this who knew him will understand.

First "Sumo" thanks and I loved your telling of the story. Thanks also to all of you have shared about Bill.

This whole Bill vs Pre thing is the last thing that either of them would have wanted (I am guilty of adding my own to the fire and I am sorry about that).

When Bill was a promising young runner he hated being called the next "Pre" for two reasons. First he felt that Pre had earned his name to himself and Bill also felt that he could make his mark on his own.

While we were young Pre took the time to talk to us at school and he was so gracious and kind and gave us great advice. Bill and I looked up to him a great deal as he really knew how to talk to young kids. In all honesty I believe that Bill and Pre would have really liked each other if they could have been teammates as they had so many traits in common. They both had so much respect for those that that competed against. Bill really liked Matt, Alberto, Don and Rudy all of the really gifted Oregon guys got along very well.

Hi Roomate. You were Bill's roomate for a few years and you are a great guy. I truly admire what you have done and who you are. Thanks for representing Bill in a way that is a part of who he was. Bill loved you. Bill was also my best friend and roomate for life as he was with Nanci so we appreciate your thoughts.

You made a reference to my thinking about a book in a political way, but I have started writing about stories about growing up and running in our family. It is deeply personal and I may never seek to publish it now that I have started.

But I will share a bit as it is about Billy and also Pre.

It is about what it was like to step up to the line in the Oregon state meet just after Pre had died. Billy and I were expected to go 1,2 in the two mile and in the end we needed to in order to win the state meet.

The day had started out as an exciting day with us looking forward to the state meet. Neither of us had read the paper at home and our parents had kept the news from us.

The two of us had watched Pre race the likes of Dave Wottle, Frank Shorter and so many others at Hayward field over the years. We were in junior high and later in high school, but we never missed a meet and pretty much were witness to all that Pre was able to do at that great venue. Harry Johnson, my high school coach, got a few of us out of school and we traveled to Spokane to watch Pre have the race of his college life against Nick Rose in a come from behind win, I believe, in the 73 NCAA xc championship. What a thrill to get out of school, stay in a hotel with my teammates and get to watch that race.

Bill and I would go on weekend long runs pretending to be Pre.

We would calk our head at that angle and run with his cross arm style and pick it up and pick it up until we were running much faster than we knew or felt as it was so uplifting. Pre was a person to us and not just a legend and he meant a lot to Bill.

That day Bill and I arrived at school in high spirits with no knowledge of his death. We had watched a great Pre race the night before and also got to cheer our brother Tom along at the same time. We came to school inspired. Those of you who know us understand what it means when the two of us would get a bit hyper. We arrived at school and we very much stood apart from the somber mood as we simply had no idea.

Our teammates looked at us in a strange way as we were all giddy for a race and ready for the get go.

When we were finally told, we both reacted as if it was not true. Pre was not someone who could die. We were so ill equiped to deal with the reality.

He had actually taken the time to cheer for us in a previous race not yet forgotten.

Billy and I sat alone in an isolated part of our locker room. We wept and neither of us spoke for the longest time. At some point we finally both stirred at the same time and Billy looked at me with his so very deep eyes filled with tears. We hugged and held each other for support. At some point we moved on to the Oregon state meet, we won, but it seemed less important that day.

My teams have won state titles following the deaths of both Tom and Bill. If there is a story there it is about how we gather strength and support one another when it is of the most value. Bill and Pre live on if we value them for their gifts beyond the results.

1) Track was still a mainstream sport when Pre came along. Mills, Lindgren, and Ryun were household names, and you could see nationally broadcast indoor and outdoor meets on Wide World of Sports. Pre gave good postrace interviews. He even gave expert commentary on TV during a race involving Kip Keino. The guy was media-genic at a time when track was still seen as a major sport.

2) He was also a prodigy who set the high school two-mile record and made the cover of Sports Illustrated during his freshman year at Oregon.

3) Not only did he dominate the NCAA at the three mile, he never lost to another American at distances longer than one mile after taking third in the NCAA cross country championship his freshman year. And this happened while track was still getting good coverage in the national media.

There won't be another "Pre" until T&F regains its popularity. And that may never happen. Pre would not be "Pre" if he had been born 20 or 30 years later.