They are going to Williams for free to run. I'm sure they are great guys and value education, but how is that fair? I don't believe every school has the opportunity to involve themselves with that program, nor is every school willing to pay full tuition for Kenyan runners. This makes it unfair.
Because there are no American students at Williams who receive significant financial aid, right?
Not true. There are Kenyans at pretty much every CAC school. They typically are very gifted students. They typically did not come to run. From what I've heard Kosgei (Hamilton) hadn't run prior at all. Giving these kids the opportunity for an education like this is about wayy more than running. It's not like they're established 14:00 guys who come here and dominate. Turning yourself into a 14:30 guy is not unheard of even for you ungifted whiteys and certainly appropriate for D3. Would you complain about scools landing 9:00 recruits if they were white?
Ahh yes ECAC's this weekend, JV regionals.
Except some team's JV runners would be the top runner for other teams... just look at women's NESCAC results for examples... Even if ECACs are "JV regionals" it should be at least mildly entertaining to watch 4 Midd girls fight for a spot on their regional team
wildthingg wrote:
They are going to Williams for free to run. I'm sure they are great guys and value education, but how is that fair? I don't believe every school has the opportunity to involve themselves with that program, nor is every school willing to pay full tuition for Kenyan runners. This makes it unfair.
This is why it's silly to pontificate about the fairness of a program without knowing the details. There are Kenyans at other NESCAC schools but so far only Hamilton and Williams have lucked into Kenyans with running interest and talent. In no way was athletic potential factored into the scholarship decision - and how could it be, given the already mentioned fact that Kosgei hadn't run a step competitively before coming to Hamilton?
I'd be willing to entertain the idea that the massive wealth of schools like Amherst and Williams give them a leg up on the competition for talent but this program doesn't and hasn't provided an advantage.
Juice Springsteen wrote:
This is why it's silly to pontificate about the fairness of a program without knowing the details. There are Kenyans at other NESCAC schools but so far only Hamilton and Williams have lucked into Kenyans with running interest and talent. In no way was athletic potential factored into the scholarship decision - and how could it be, given the already mentioned fact that Kosgei hadn't run a step competitively before coming to Hamilton?
I'd be willing to entertain the idea that the massive wealth of schools like Amherst and Williams give them a leg up on the competition for talent but this program doesn't and hasn't provided an advantage.
To whoever posted about it being a comparable situation to a 9:00 guy coming to a NE D-III school: How many 9:00 guys attend D-III schools for free? Also, how many 9:00 recruits have there been in D-III in the last few years? I'd say very few. But yes, the same questions of fairness would come up.
From the KenSAP website: "All students participate in regular athletic training with a view to gauging whether any of them, regardless of previous interest or participation, demonstrates running talent of a standard that might interest a college coach."
Athletic potential is clearly a factor. I understand that this is primarily an academic program and that it opens up tremendous opportunities for promising students. But I just think it is ignorant to think that it is by chance or luck that Williams ends up with those runners--it has the resources to involve itself with that program, and every school cannot say that.
I am almost certain that Edgar and Josephat did not run for more than two or three months before crossing the Atlantic. A Williams athlete explained their situation to me and I have no reason not to believe him. It is also possible that being on a very competitive team has helped to motivate the Williams kenyans. Obviously Peter is a different story. I firmly believe that these Kenyans are not what is unfair.
The playing field in New England is uneven when it comes to recruiting American kids. Due to reputation and history, Williams and Amherst will always be able to recruit better kids than their NESCAC rivals. I do not have any evidence to back this up but I would assume that the high school PRs of the Americans on Williams' varsity are far faster than those of the other NESCAC schools.
there are currently Kenyans from the KenSap program at Hamilton, Williams, Amherst, Connecticut College, Wesleyan ...and probably all the rest as well, but i know of those for sure. It's a huge crap shoot as to whether they have any running talent and/or desire. It's hit or miss. There are also Kenyans from this program at Harvard and several other D1 programs whom turned out to be total busts. Williams is definitely not cheating by any means.
But Williams being the athletic powerhouse that it is takes athletic ability MUCH more into account when selecting KenSAP kids than these other NESCAC schools. This is a universal trait across all sports, races and genders (some of the people who get rejected from other NESCAC schools get into Williams no problem because of athletic ability) but really emerges when we're talking about KenSAP kids.
Neither Kosgey nor Koima made the Varsity at freshmen. Kamm was the only frosh to run Varsity from Kosgey's class and Raduazo from Koima's class. So Williams did not recruit proven talent. Colby had a two time Ethiopian Olympic 1500 man on their team in the 60s; the current crop doesn't measure up to that standard.
If you really want to get all riled up lets talk about the amount of talent for a D3 program that heads to Williamstown every year. Look at kids like Geary, Kamm, Cole, Christian, Raduazo etc that were all 415 920 15 or better kids in HS. How many schools in the country get the kind of HS talent that Williams gets year in and year out one maybe two. Its not just talent but depth as well I remember a few years ago Williams had something like 11 kids break ten in HS in one recruiting class, some NESCAC schools get excited when they get one or two. The kenyans just arent the problem to me they were not recruited for running (although I heard Edgar ran a 408 1500 at altitude) they just happen to be pretty good once they get there and start training.
"I remember a few years ago Williams had something like 11 kids break ten in HS in one recruiting class, some NESCAC schools get excited when they get one or two."
So no D3 school should recruit? Or should there be a cap on the number of incoming sub-10:00 runners? You can only allow a recruiting class equal to that of Colby's to join your team?
This ain't the USSR brah.
And look how little they do once they get there. Should have gone to Haverford.
You are absolutely right Calripken. Nobody has ever gotten better under Farwell. Just ask Chaffee, Perlis, or Watts.
Coming from a fellow NESCACee I've never felt disadvantaged racing against them. They may have more talent but that's the nature of the sport. There are faster white guys out there. And there's a whole division of basically American dude's that are faster. They aren't at an unattainable level and there are guys out there that run with them who are not Kenyan (Faller, Norte, etc). I find it to be a lame ass excuse to not train as hard b/c so and so has more talent. A team with 7 10:00 guys could very well knock off a team like Williams if they train right, and there's a lot of teams with much more talent than that. I don't think it's the case that Williams gets to pick out which Kenyan they want and leave the rest to everyone else. They get the recruits b/c its a proven program. If you want recruits run a little faster each year and they'll come.
williams is a great academic school in a beautiful location with twice the athletic budget of any other Nescac schools. what great high school athlete wouldn't want to go there?
less than a week to go. Any final predictions?
That is a lie. Williams has the highest standard for athletic recruits. Show me any data you can find that proves otherwise.
word on the street is not all is well in Williamstown...