********FLO JO's SPRINT RECORD, WAS IT GENUINE??*******

Your response was not what I was expecting, but it could be a possibility. She was sporting the one-legged leotard a lot at the time, also. I'll say that Juantorena and Bob Hayes got good results despite poor body/hair aerodynamics.

I'd really like to know her weightlifting approach. Bob Kersee implemented some kind of program that created huge strength gains followed by a conversion to fast limb movement.

Given a few questions to Bob, I'd ask:

-what movements did you use in the weightroom?

-how did you periodize the following phases: max. strength, power, and speed?

-what track workouts did you balance the weights with?

Alas I don't think he shares much, and with the constant accusations pointed towards his dead athlete, I can't blame him.

i think you are right joel, there are so many things i would like to ask him, but how could i possibly get him to trust me?

trying to contact him would probably be a waste of time. as a journalist, what chance would i have of gaining his trust? about zero i would imagine.

i'm sure so much has changed in Bob Kersee's life over the years that he must have a defensive wall around him that would make China envious.

i am sure that Flo Jo is worth a book more than an article, but how does one go about researching her life story?

i wouldn't want to write a biography, but a short story is more appealing to me. i would want to get a balanced view of her from some of the people who were around in the 80's.

i am sure i would hear lots of drug stories, but i would like to hear the opinions of less cynical observers too.

i have always tried to be fair to the people i have written about in the past. although i often make jokes about people on this website, i don't trash talk when i am writing articles about people, i just don't want to write anything undignified about anyone's achievements in sport.

the times that Florence Griffith Joyner ran deserve a serious explanation, because no athlete male or female, drugged or otherwise has run close in the 100 metres.

Michael Johnson's achievements are greater in my opinion, but that is another story, and a much less enigmatic one than Flo Jo.

I guess you've got nothing to lose in trying to contact the Joyner/Kersee families. They might even be willing to talk if you stayed off drug topics.

Sounds like an interesting article. You should let wejo know about it when it goes online.

weldonjohnson@letsrun.com

"Jonny Oyou gotta be kidding me"-

Again, I can't believe your fantastic discovery was an "aerofoil" hair-do.

What I do know about aerodynamics and sprinters in recent years:

I don't think the various uniform upgrades (hooded uniforms, sunglasses that wrap over the top of the head, one legged tights, etc) showcased at the Olympics and other high profile meets provided any significant aid, at least performance-wise. They may have helped generate some interest in whoever was wearing them, and they have made some money for the clothing/equipment manufacturers, but that's about it.

I'm a distance runner, and I have a shaved head. Do you recommend, with purely aerodynamics and faster times in mind, that I grow my hair very long and try to re-create the "Flo Jo Aerofoil Big Hair?" Will I run faster if I cut off one side of my tights? Will I run faster if I was planning on wearing shorts, but instead added one legged tights? How about the longer finger nails, the hood, and the make-up?

What always makes me laugh is the fact that you often see big bulky watches (not to mention gold chains and giant finger nails) on many sprinters. A couple of thoughts on the watch thing: If you were trying to get down the track as fast as possible, wouldn't you carry less? And why do you need a watch during a sprint race - are you planning on checking your 50m split?

Flo Jo ran as fast as she did through natural talent and great training. This great training may indeed have contained some little known/revolutionary techniques in plyometrics, strength training, running form, etc. I have never questioned that aspect of her performance. But (there's always a but) if you, as a journalist, are you thinking about writing an article about Flo Jo in which you plan on approaching some level of objectivity and do not discuss POSSIBLE drug use, you are doing your profession and any readers a disservice.

My long standing stance on situations like this is that without a positive drug test (or one that's been made public), other documented proof, or a confession, no records or medals should ever be stripped. That, however, doesn't keep the court of public opinion from weighing in on the situation.

The reasons I believe she benefitted from performance enhancing drugs:

#1 Her times are so far out there in comparison to any women before, during or since 1988, and pre-1988 Florence Griffith-Joyner (before she became Flo Jo, in other words). She was a great world class athlete before 1988, but in 1988 she put up alien like performances and abruptly retired on top of the sprint world.

#2 There is still no test available for Human Growth Hormone. So, to say that Flo Jo (or any other athlete) never tested positive for it is pointless. And from following the sport, HGH was really taking off as the drug of choice. If the use of HGH was as anywhere near as prevalent as I've heard, I would be a fool not to speculate on the possibility that the fastest woman ever for 100 & 200m was taking it.

#3 There was no random drug testing in place at the time, making it very simple to evade testing. If you look at the women's world records specifically, the VAST majority of them took place prior to random testing being in place, or involving athletes/countries where such randowm testing was extremely rare or difficult to execute (China, for example).

Is any of this enough proof to remove her WRs or medals? Of course not. But is it enough evidence to warrant serious discussion/inquiry into the strong possibilities that there were illicit means behind her performances in 1988? Yes.

BDG

BDG,

SIX FOOT THREE,

JUST LIKE ME,

BALD AS CAN BE,

JUST LIKE ME,

BUT HE STILL CAN'T SEE,

LIKE ME.

HE DOESN'T AGREE,

OH WOE IS ME,

I'VE BEEN SUCH A FOOL,

I FEEL SUCH A TOOL.

JonnyO wrote:

BDG,

SIX FOOT THREE,

JUST LIKE ME,

BALD AS CAN BE,

JUST LIKE ME,

BUT HE STILL CAN'T SEE,

LIKE ME.

HE DOESN'T AGREE,

OH WOE IS ME,

I'VE BEEN SUCH A FOOL,

I FEEL SUCH A TOOL.

OK

BDG thanks for showing me the error of my ways, i really thought that running at 39 kmh, would generate considerable wind resistance, obviously i was wrong, thanks for pointing that out.

also thanks for showing me that Flo Jo's unbelievable speed was gained not just by training and technoque, but by being the biggest druggie of all time, there can be no other technical innovation, and she obviously never did any testing in a wind tunnel as i suspected.

wind tunnels hadn't been invented in 1988 and cyclists and skiers never used then either, twas merely the stuff of sciecnce fiction.

you are a brilliant scholar, i congratulate you.

my humblest and most sincere apologies.

JonnyO

Chemically enhanced or not, the records are astounding in their separation from subsequent performances by others. Consider the record as 10.61, though, since the video evidence is unimpeachable regarding the 10.49 wind.

Without recreating a previous post in agonizing detail, an attempt to train a woman for a massive record attempt would look exactly like all of the factors, circumstances, and training leading up to FloJo?s 88 season.

And the weight training focus was big on hip flexors. Yes, including lunges.

some white dude,

that makes a lot of sense, it is obvious from what i have seen in video evidence, that those lunges were put to devastating effect in '88

some white dude,

given that lunges played a crucial part in Flo Jo's ability to gain and maintain incredible knee lift, would the same priciple apply to a distance runner?

after all, knee lift plays a vital role in stride length even in a marathon race.

i always include short hill sprints in my training all year round, because as well as helping to maintain a balance of speed and nerve impulses, i am sure that maintaining or improving max velocity is vital for distance runners.

would lunges help my hill sprints?

Jonny, a slew of track athletes from the 1980's personally helped Flo-Jo inject herself with steroids - seems she was queasy about doing this herself. The stories are everywhere and this is not any more a matter of "speculation" or something in need of "proof" than evolution is. Just because you weren't on the f***ing train when it left the station doesn't mean you can bitch and bark and try to play conductor and expect to be taken seriously.

I know what you're saying: you are correct that there was never a positive test on FloJo and never any result or chance finding of drugs in her career.

And I could say that I know people that were running track at UCLA while she was there in the mid 80s and saw her dope, but I did not personally witness it so I don't take the position to defame someone's character, especially someone that can no longer defend themselves.

On 100m WR: on think the IAAF record book says that the wind gauge was more than likely f***ed up but I don't see them removing her time any time soon. Her 10.61 (2nd fastest legal mark) is a much more legitamate mark and much more approachable (Marion's 10.65A in '98).

I stumbled upon an old video of FloJo running. What caught my attention was the commentator’s comments about FloJo’s running style. She said that FloJo was barely lifting her knees up! WoW! Just wOw! FloJo was DECADES ahead of her time, as you stated. I am not sure that she was doping, after hearing that. She, or whoever changed her technique, was ICONIC!

The wind gauge is not the real issue. She ran 10.54 just over 2 m/s at the Olympics, and 21.33, as well as a 48 4x400 split.

She was absolutely dominant in her new condition, which was an obvious response to the ability of the Eastern Europeans to dope with impunity and smash all the records. She could have run sub 10.5 legally. She was not going all out in those races. Of course, she was doped to the maximum. And she did not take a chance by coming back another year and doing more. She still died young.

An oldie and goodie! Back to FloJo....

I doubt anything has changed since she died. Not one person on this board or even who has ever run any distance in an actual running contest has any doubt whatsoever that she was a dope fiend. There is no possible explanation for her step-change performance from 1986/7 to 88, and to her absolute destruction of any and all opponents including E German sprint WRs that were themselves the product of intense and now well-documented state doping regimens. Many people on this board believe that her premature and untimely death was directly related to the intensive regimen a decade earlier.

The wind reading at Indy for her 10.49 was highly suspect but even so, if we class that performance as windy, she would still be holder of a monumental WR. 21.3 was wild enough.

No, her times were not genuine. As in, genuine meaning achieved without pharma assistance. But neither were those of Gohr, Wockel, Koch, Jones, etc. FloJo's times still smoke all the other dopers.

Q: Ask yourself this: which of today's WRs will still be standing in 2100?

A: Not 8.95, not 19.19, not 43.03 etc. Not 12:37. NOT EVEN ~1.39, ~3.24. ~3.41 etc.

It'll be that 10.49.

JonnyO wrote:

NativeSon, I think the wind guage was faulty, she probably could have run 10.60 with a 2.00 m/sec following wind

i think she ran 10.54 in the Olympic Games 100m final, with a following wind slightly over the legal limit.

she was awesome, of course most people will tell you she was drugged to the eyeballs, but there is no evidence.

people sold stories to the news people saying they sold human growth hormone to her or injected her with steroids, but I just dont believe them.

of course i want to believe she was clean, but i also want to see real evidence either way.

so far we have none, only rumoour and innuendo.

Did you see the way she looked? Like a trannie....

Pretty agreeable, Conte claims FloJo & JJK fail tests in Seoul but it was covered up.

Actually the women's 400m or shot put records might be the strongest records.

A rare confrontation