Look this over hotshot internet experts, I think Burfoot's attitude is based on reality.
Last year alone a daunting number of Eth, 6 sub or better 2:08:30; Ken, 29 sub or better 2:08:30!!!
Last year in the 10km, 10 Eth sub 27:30 clockings; 15 Ken sub 27:30 clockings.
5km last year the world list had 9 Eth sub 13:10; 15 Ken sub 13:10 marks!!!
Now, what would you like Mr Burfoot to say? He is speaking from his experience & he took off his rose color glasses at the door.
Nobby wrote:
As many experts on this message board repeatedly pointed out, Japanese are not very fast.
After watching this year's national high school ekiden -- and having seen some Japanese middle and high school championship track meets in the past -- I'm not so sure about that, Nobby.
Some very young Japanese runners are logging some awfully fast times at 5K and 10K. As I recall, I saw several sub-14:00 5K PRs listed during the HS ekiden, and that was just for the runners in one leg of the race (of course, couple of the Kenyans in the race had faster PRs, but those are the ringers like Sammy). And some of the Japanese kids with these kinds of PRs weren't even seniors!
I don't think it's that the Japanese lack talent at the shorter distances. I think it's that their training is focused so tightly on the ma-ra-son.
If Amby is saying that winning Boston will be a tall order for Hall because the field has a dozen or so guys with sub 2:09s and that we shouldn't start carrying on about Hall "choking" if he's third or fifth, I agree.
If he's saying that Hall's sub 2:08:30s are somehow inferior to an African's sub 2:08:30 and that we should figure Hall can't win because he's not an African I disagree. That's not to say that I expect Hall to win. Numerically the odds are against him as they are against any other individual athlete. But I do think his chances of winning are comparable to those of the Kenyns and Ethiopians that Amby mentions.
Bobaloo:
I don't believe in that crap either. You didn't ditect my "tone"? "As many experts on this message board...pointed out"... What does that tell ya?
We're going up to The Quad to see some boobies! Who's with me?
HRE wrote:
If he's saying that Hall's sub 2:08:30s are somehow inferior to an African's sub 2:08:30 and that we should figure Hall can't win because he's not an African I disagree.
A sub-2:08:30 to win is indeed superior to a sub-2:08:30 that was not close to winning.
I find Mr. Burfoot and his attitude refreshing. Far too many times I am forced to read crap from the over forty crowd that acts like a win back in 1978 is the same as a win today. IT IS NOT. In 1980 there were less than 10 Kenyans running sub 220. Today there are 600 Kenyans a year running that fast. There are over 50 Kenyans annually running faster than any one that Rodgers, Shorter, Beardsley, Meyer or anyone else at that time had to face. THE PLAYING FIELD IS DIFFERENT TODAY. Mr. Burfoot has remained in the sport and is intelligent enough to see this fact.
Wooooooooooooo hhhhhhhoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
GTF wrote:
HRE wrote:If he's saying that Hall's sub 2:08:30s are somehow inferior to an African's sub 2:08:30 and that we should figure Hall can't win because he's not an African I disagree.
A sub-2:08:30 to win is indeed superior to a sub-2:08:30 that was not close to winning.
Agree. But again, that has nothing to do with whether the sub 2:08:30, whether it was a winning time or not, was run by an African or non-African.
many many many problems wrote:
I find Mr. Burfoot and his attitude refreshing. Far too many times I am forced to read crap from the over forty crowd that acts like a win back in 1978 is the same as a win today. IT IS NOT. In 1980 there were less than 10 Kenyans running sub 220. Today there are 600 Kenyans a year running that fast. There are over 50 Kenyans annually running faster than any one that Rodgers, Shorter, Beardsley, Meyer or anyone else at that time had to face. THE PLAYING FIELD IS DIFFERENT TODAY. Mr. Burfoot has remained in the sport and is intelligent enough to see this fact.
A win at Boston was not the "same" in 1904 as it was in 1944 as it was in 1974 etc.
But what it takes to win is always the same, preparation & desire not whining about how much the playing field has changed or worrying about the "odds"
The performances are always improving over time.
Whoops! wrote:
Tell you what, I'll stop correcting your errors when you start correcting them. That's my best offer.
On the other hand, I sincerely hope that Wejo will follow through when he says that he will ban condescending a-holes like you:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1787789You keep hoping, bright guy, but many of us are in touch with the reality of the situation.
Added perspective wrote:
Whoops! wrote:Tell you what, I'll stop correcting your errors when you start correcting them. That's my best offer.
On the other hand, I sincerely hope that Wejo will follow through when he says that he will ban condescending a-holes like you:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1787789
I remember reading in RW back in the mid 70s, that Amby Burfoot ran an 8:40 2 mile on nothing more than 7 minute training miles. Crap articles like that, whether they are true or not (supremly gifted runners can do lots of things out of the ordinary-how many milers have you seen quoted in March after running a sub 4 mile that, "they haven't even gotten on the track yet"?). Problem is, when the ordinary runner reads this crap, they think that somehow it will transfer to them and their career goes down the dumper.
Like you are any better? Ha! wrote:
You keep hoping, bright guy, but many of us are in touch with the reality of the situation.
Agreed. The reality of the matter is that if Wejo doesn't mandate screen name registration to enable a little bit of accountability, immature cowards like "Whoops!" will continue to thrive.
at the limit wrote:
Look this over hotshot internet experts, I think Burfoot's attitude is based on reality...
That doesn't necessarily prove anything because this is not a team sport. It only takes 1 person to win.
txRUNNERgirl wrote:
at the limit wrote:Look this over hotshot internet experts, I think Burfoot's attitude is based on reality...
That doesn't necessarily prove anything because this is not a team sport. It only takes 1 person to win.
EXACTLY!
That is your best post ever, and it wins the thread!
Actually, Steph, it does mean something. Win is a win is a win; but what about the depth? I've seen several threads out there in regards to Japanese. There's always someone pops out and says "US won 2 medals in 2004 Olympics; maybe they should learn from us (US)..." The problem with US, and it's so typical, that it ends there. Deena and Meb won a medal. Meb just won US XC champs. Deena is still #1 runner in the US (excluding a freakish accident in Beijing). So is it the individual feat or the system feat? Japan won gold (men) and silver (women) in 1991 WC. From then on, they won 2 silvers in 1992 Olympics; one bronze but the same gal in 1996; gold in 2000 with a different girl; another gold in 2004 but others finished 5th ad 6th, and also 5th and 6th in men's race as well. Yet different guy won the bronze in Helsinki WC; Tosa, the one who finished 5th in Athens, won bronze in Osaka WC.
You look at 1968 Olympic marathon and say Ethiopia is great and you have to be high altitude born athlete. But the second was a Japanese; third Kiwi; fourth Turkey; fifth Brits... Who was sixth in that race? Now that's a trivia...
In 1992, I thought Bouman was going to win the gold; watching some of the European races and how he was shaping up. He did. But that does not prove Amby wrong at all. Cacho won 1500 but that was a huge tactical thing in which Kenyans made a huge boo-boo. Again, that does not prove Amby wrong. I'm not saying he's right; but one win doesn't mean much either. Lee Bong-Ju won, when was it, 2001 Boston and stopped Kenyan streak. But that does not prove Koreans are better than Kenyans. He had, how many Kenyans, 6 or 7 of them right behind him.
The problem with the US, as I see it, is; okay, so Team USA CA is doing great; we've got Deena, Meb...and now we've got Hall. He's running great. So we can call it a day. Or, Hansons are doing fine; they're doing what we needed. So good luck to them... We need the Hansons and Team USA CAs 20 different places. Like someone else used to always say; for every Takahashi and Noguchi, the US should have a half a dozen Deenas and Mebs; but we don't. There SHOULD be 5 or 6 other Halls toeing with Ryan against Kenyans and Ethiopians at Boston.
I personally think Hall has a good chance if he doesn't make any mistake, including during his preparation; but, if he wins, that doesn't prove American supremacy either.
You look at 1968 Olympic marathon and say Ethiopia is great and you have to be high altitude born athlete. But the second was a Japanese; third Kiwi; fourth Turkey; fifth Brits... Who was sixth in that race? Now that's a trivia...
grabou merawi ethiopia
sorry, it is gabrou not grabou
Listen look at the list I provided, how many non-Africans did you spy? I see 2. Whatever with you, nonsense you speak. DONE