Coach Cook shares his thoughts on what happened with Flannagan and Donohue

struggling student.... wrote:

Yes but 2 more have run 4:00... Ruth Wysocki and Shannon Rowbury (Rowbury who could get even lower).

Rowbury will get even lower

malmo wrote:

A wet dishrag could coach Flanagan.

So it should be pretty easy finding a coach.

I just saw the article and that Coach Cook is one classy individual. Old guy has a lot of growing up to do.

It's also interesting how some people assume he's telling the truth. He's got a pretty creative, yet paranoid story there and his description of Steve Edwards is so inaccurate it's actually kind of funny.

JNanners wrote:

It's also interesting how some people assume he's telling the truth. He's got a pretty creative, yet paranoid story there and his description of Steve Edwards is so inaccurate it's actually kind of funny.

And you know this how, exactly?

cripple runner wrote:

Athletes of all walks share a serious psychological problem - the inability to understand and accept the limitations of their unique genetic potential. They organize their lives around training to achieve impossible goals and then ascribe their failure to reach those goals to extrinsic factors such as coaching errors. It sounds as though Erin had a good coach in Cook and then bolted when he rightfully informed her that her goals are unrealistic. I'm not saying that Erin should quit professional runnig; instead, I'm saying that she should make decisions based on reality rather than fantasy. That she does otherwise is clear evidence that she is running down a bad intellectual path which will most likely end in complete frustration.

I appreciate your point, but do you really believe that it's "unrealistic" or mere "fantasy" for a 25-year-old 1500-meter runner, having dropped over nine seconds from her PR at the age of 24, to believe that she may be able to drop another five or six seconds within the next three or four years? Does that really seem like an "impossible goal" to you?

One of the reasons that athletes are unable to "understand and accept the limitations of their unique genetic potential" is that it's very difficult to figure out exactly what those limitations are, especially in a sport like distance running. Even when progress stalls out, it's hard to know whether the athlete is bumping up against genetic limitations or merely bumping up against limitations imposed by a particular training program that may be unsuitable for that particular athlete.

I don't know any of the individuals involved in this matter. Of course, Cook has seen and coached many runners, and has undoubtedly developed his own sense of how far various runners are likely to progress. But just as there are lots of runners with unrealistic expectations of future achievement, there are lots of coaches who write off many athletes too quickly, and who are unwilling to gamble on a longshot or an athlete with "iffy" talent when they see more obvious talent elsewhere.

Marvin Monroe wrote:

And you know this how, exactly?

Probably the same way that everyone else is oh so certain that the opposite story is completely accurate.

as mentioned earlier in this thread:

2000 3:57.40 Oslo 28/07/2000

1998 3:58.38 Monaco 08/08/1998

1997 4:03.50 Sheffield 29/06/1997

1995 4:05.14 Monaco 25/07/1995

1994 4:06.60 Monaco 02/08/1994

1993 4:15.07 San José, CA 29/05/1993

1991 4:15.54 Tokyo 29/08/1991

1987 4:09.10 San José, CRC 27/06/1987

In 1995, she was 26.

Donohue's 1500 pr is from '07, so she didn't even improve last year.

Also, has anyone ever seen Donohue and Eddie Lee in the same room?

Avocados Number wrote:

do you really believe that it's "unrealistic" or mere "fantasy" for a 25-year-old 1500-meter runner, having dropped over nine seconds from her PR at the age of 24, to believe that she may be able to drop another five or six seconds within the next three or four years? Does that really seem like an "impossible goal" to you?

Given the level of coaching she was getting prior to her time with Cook and given the number of 4-flat or better women with the same build and mechanics as Donohue? I love Donohue (I think she's hot) and would like nothing more than to see her ascend to the top on the world stage, but yes. Does it come as a surprise that Donohue might not have a terribly realistic view of herself? Not at all. I hope she keeps plugging away, but Cook is retired and thus his time probably comes at a premium so it's also no surprise that he wouldn't want to spend his time and energy on someone who doesn't trust his assessment.

closet case wrote:

Marvin Monroe wrote:

And you know this how, exactly?

Probably the same way that everyone else is oh so certain that the opposite story is completely accurate.

The difference is that Cook has nothing to lose from telling the truth. That's not the case at all with the Flanagans.

The job of a coach is to help bring out the best in an athlete. The athlete has got to believe in the coach. Consent based on mutual trust.

I don't know anything about Cook's past but his public comments alone about Donahue show that he's not a good coach.

Everything else is background noise.

Avocados Number wrote:

I appreciate your point, but do you really believe that it's "unrealistic" or mere "fantasy" for a 25-year-old 1500-meter runner, having dropped over nine seconds from her PR at the age of 24, to believe that she may be able to drop another five or six seconds within the next three or four years? Does that really seem like an "impossible goal" to you?

Am I missing something here? I thought her goals were to break 4:00 and medal in the 1500 in 2012. Whether Erin can break 4:00 is arguable, whether she will medal in 2012 is not debatable. She will never medal in a major championship. I don't have a horse in this race (and certainly admired Donahue's college career) but she will lucky to make the US team in 2012 let alone medal in the Olympics.

He was no longer her coach when he made those comments.

Four years ago would you have given Nick Willis a chance as an Olympic medalist?

Moes Tavern wrote:

Earlier this year I had a gal who ran 32:44 on a downhill course for 10km. Yes, its downhill, the course is certfied, but her legs did turn over that fast. She was a new athlete mentally after that. She'll race again now in April and we'll see if it still holds...

Elisha Kiror 25 1 25:43.4

2 James Kirwa

24 2 27:04.2

3 Chokri Dhaouadi

35 3 27:12.9

Women's

* 1 Hyvon N'getich

23 6 29:03.7

2 Jacquline Nyetipei

24 9 30:54.9

3 Debbie Arzola

34 11 32.44.2

Um, yeah, 25:43 and 29:03... not only downhill, but short. Your gal is kidding herself if she even considers herself a 33 min. 10K gal.

to be honest wrote:

Moes Tavern wrote:

Earlier this year I had a gal who ran 32:44 on a downhill course for 10km. Yes, its downhill, the course is certfied, but her legs did turn over that fast. She was a new athlete mentally after that. She'll race again now in April and we'll see if it still holds...

http://www.worldsfastest10k.com/

Elisha Kiror 25 1 25:43.4

2 James Kirwa

24 2 27:04.2

3 Chokri Dhaouadi

35 3 27:12.9

Women's

* 1 Hyvon N'getich

23 6 29:03.7

2 Jacquline Nyetipei

24 9 30:54.9

3 Debbie Arzola

34 11 32.44.2

Um, yeah, 25:43 and 29:03... not only downhill, but short. Your gal is kidding herself if she even considers herself a 33 min. 10K gal.

OK shit head. I qualified this. If you know who I am and who the athlete is, then f*** you. Call me. You got my number.

To call that a "downhill course" isn't even honest, it's more like a cliff dive with a strong horizontal component. Great, so her legs "turned over that fast" to keep up with the pull of gravity, that's not at all the same as turning them over that fast while using muscles to push the body over a legit course. Agree with "to be honest," if you've fed into convincing her that she'll come within two minutes of that 32:44 on an honest course then you've done her a disservice.

This is why Kara rules and Shalane doesn't. Just look at the Reebok results. Shalane gets her American record and gets to pad her pockets. But she LOST the damn race. Kara? She goes out and throws down on Sally f'ing Kipyego.

Kipyego hasn't earned that "f'ing" on the pro level yet. Goucher could tool on Kim Smith, no surprise that she can run away from Kipyego. Flanagan would've trounced both Goucher and Kipyego over either distance. Goucher's not going to threaten the indoor 5000 AR, believe it.