Isn't IVY League Essentially D-2 Parading as D-1

now, Ivy Leaguers, do you understand that it is a logical fallacy (a variety of ad hominem) to attack the OP on the basis not that his claim is wrong but that he may or may not have been accepted by Ivy League schools?

Logic 101 for you: A logical fallacy is a type of bad reasoning. Use of a logical fallacy in an argument means that the premises do not support the conclusion.

BRF wrote:

...its easy to follow...

*it's

jonesy. wrote:now, Ivy Leaguers, do you understand that it is a logical fallacy (a variety of ad hominem) to attack the OP on the basis not that his claim is wrong but that he may or may not have been accepted by Ivy League schools?

Sounds like someone got rejected from their reach school.

OP you are correct.

Rojo is a hell of a coach, all those appearances at D1 nationals in the last 5 years.

The Insider wrote:

The fact of the matter is that Cornell wouldn't finish in the top 5 at "baby nationals".

BRF wrote:

Well, if we're talking about DIII Nationals...

If the top Ivy teams, say the top two or three, were somehow plopped down into the DIII championship meet, they assuredly would be contenders for the trophies.

Errr, Cornell beat this year's DIII champions by 112 points at Paul Short. You can argue they might not have beaten Cortland at Penn State or at DIII nationals, but we don't have those results to go on. As far as we can tell from actual results, the top 4 Ivy teams this year would take the top 4 team spots in DIII.

DII is another story. None of the Ivies could touch Adams this year. They'd probably put 4 teams in the top 10, meaning any one of those teams alone would be in the top 4 to 6 in the DII meet without the other Ivies to push them back. That does mean the top DII teams are better than the best Ivy teams, but as a national championship race, DII is nothing like D1 in depth. The worst Ivy team could beat the 20th place team at DII nationals (Yale was significantly better than this year's 19th place DII team at Penn State, and Penn surely would be too) and none of the Ivies even made the D1 meet this year.

So to sum up, there are some DII teams no Ivy team has any business dissing (actually, not too many hard working teams in any division deserve to be disrespected by anybody, even the Oregons of the world), but let's face it, DII ain't as deep.

But we knew all that already. So what's the fuss?

huh????? wrote:

Princeton came in 4th in their region

Columbia came in 3rd

Dartmouth came in 4th

if these teams arent getting respect I could only imagine what your opinions of the teams below them are.

This guy nailed it, at least from my point of view. If you believe the Ivies should be be demoted, then you must believe that there should only be two teams in the Northeast Region. That seems, well, silly, doesn't it? I think most people fail to appreciate how bad some DI programs truly are.

Providence only beat Columbia by 10 at regionals and Columbia and Dartmouth both beat Syracuse. Columbia had 5 guys in the top 24 and Dartmouth had two individual qualifiers.

neeaster wrote:

Providence only beat Columbia by 10 at regionals and Columbia and Dartmouth both beat Syracuse. Columbia had 5 guys in the top 24 and Dartmouth had two individual qualifiers.

Princeton also sent two individuals, and Harvard of all places had the top Ivy finisher at nats.

BRF wrote:

jhgd wrote:

I could have gone to any Ivy league school I wanted to actually.

Barnard?

Bartarded athletes should be allowed the same opportunities as everyone else.

I didn't read this whole thread, but another thing to consider is that the no 5th year thing seriously handicaps runners in the Ivy League. In a sport where a year can make a massive difference to one's fitness, the Ivy's would be a different animal at the NCAA level if each team had 5th year seniors...

Conto wrote:

I didn't read this whole thread, but another thing to consider is that the no 5th year thing seriously handicaps runners in the Ivy League. In a sport where a year can make a massive difference to one's fitness, the Ivy's would be a different animal at the NCAA level if each team had 5th year seniors...

And so is that extra year to make that pretty green!

The fifth year is huge. Columbia's top kids from last year Liam Boylan Pett (1:48 and 3:42), Carmen Ballard (23rd at XC Nationals)and Erica Moses (53.5) are all running for Georgetown since they are not allowed to compete at Columbia. Columbia's top female XC runner and national qualifier has a year left but cant run for them next year. I think the Dartmouth 1:48 guy is now at Texas as well.

ivy league is legit. irish runners all over the place and trinity gray