I included Mesecho because he was an '08 graduate of an American high school, like Hassan Mead last year. Both appear to be on the road to U.S. citizenship, like Meb Keflezighi and Lopez Lomong. Mesecho and Mead will likely be key members of U.S. World Championship and Olympic teams in coming years, as will Fernandez, Derrick, Puskedra, Lowe and hopefully a few others.
What's with Colby not running Regionals, is that just to rest him?
*Chris Derrick, Stanford, 28:44 5th West
*Luke Puskedra, Oregon, 28:45 6th West
*Girma Mesecho, Auburn, 30:50 3rd South
*German Fernandez, OK State, 31:20 5th Midwest
*Vince McNally, Penn State, 31:52 6th MA
*Eric Fernandez, Arkansas, 30:53 7th SC
*Brian Leung, Princeton, 32:19 9th MA
*Ryan Hill, NC State, 31:26 27 SE
*Rick Elliott, Arkansas, 31:57 27 SC
*Joseph Miller, Notre Dame, 32:01 20 GL
Andrew Brodeur, Duke, 31:51 40 SE
John Luttrell, Kentucky, 32:07 50 SE
Levi Grandt, Richmond, 32:14 53 SE
Brian Welch, Virginia Tech, 32:17 55 SE
Kyle Powers, Liberty, 32:18 58 SE
Luke Lovelace, Louisville, 32:19 59 SE
Michael Hammond, Virginia Tech, 32:27 61 SE
It looks like we've got at least 11 freshmen going to Nationals, counting Colby Lowe who didn't run Regionals, but will almost certainly compete at Nationals. Elliott Krause ran Conference but not Retionals, and probably won't be going. So we'll be short of my prediction of 12 freshmen making the top 100 at nationals.
Standout performances goes to Chris Derrick, who bested his rival, though Puskedra ran better over 10k that I thought, only a second behind. The course was short, so add at least 90 seconds to their times. Even then, it was a good fast race.
Vince McNally, Eric Fernandez and Brian Leung all had standout performances, guaranteeing the first two spots on their teams at nationals, and Leung as an individual qualifier.
German Fernandez disappointed a bit. Sure he probably stuck to the pack per coach's instructions, but didn't he even try to kick in the end, not even past Kosgei? It makes one question if he really has the sufficient ego and cajones to be a winner. Most consistent champions, like Pre, are usually a little crazy, and would never hold themselves back no matter what coach says. While before I thought he was a solid bet for 3rd, I've moved him down a notch behind Biwott. I'll be rooting for him, but as it is, Derrick, Puskedra and Mesecho all ran better today.
Fastnbulbous wrote:
German Fernandez disappointed a bit. Sure he probably stuck to the pack per coach's instructions, but didn't he even try to kick in the end, not even past Kosgei? It makes one question if he really has the sufficient ego and cajones to be a winner. Most consistent champions, like Pre, are usually a little crazy, and would never hold themselves back no matter what coach says. While before I thought he was a solid bet for 3rd, I've moved him down a notch behind Biwott. I'll be rooting for him, but as it is, Derrick, Puskedra and Mesecho all ran better today.
Bull.
You have a warped perspective. German did his job. His job was to run well enough to ensure his team victory. What would he have gained by "outkicking" Kosgei, his teammate, who finished less than a second ahead of him? Their 1-4 split was less than a second! I don't think anybody in that group was kicking. OSU has done the same thing at the regional meet for the last 4 years in a row. It seems to me that they have a plan, they believe in it, they stick to it and it has been serving them very well. There is probably a reason they always seem to outperform expectations at nationals.
Does a point guard that averages 15 points a game, "disappoint" when, in the NCAA semi-final game, following his coach's instructions, drives and dishes more, leading his team to a 20 point victory and a birth in the championship game but only scores 9? And in the last 3 seconds, with the game in hand, does he "disappoint" if he doesn't take that last 3 pointer to boost his numbers and raise his scoring above his teammate who has 11?
what sport are you talking about?
Once again, do you think Dellinger would have told Prefontaine to "take it easy." Rupp and Chelanga will leave Fernandez in their dust.
smart runners > crazy ones wrote:
Fastnbulbous wrote:German Fernandez disappointed a bit. Sure he probably stuck to the pack per coach's instructions, but didn't he even try to kick in the end, not even past Kosgei? It makes one question if he really has the sufficient ego and cajones to be a winner. Most consistent champions, like Pre, are usually a little crazy, and would never hold themselves back no matter what coach says. While before I thought he was a solid bet for 3rd, I've moved him down a notch behind Biwott. I'll be rooting for him, but as it is, Derrick, Puskedra and Mesecho all ran better today.
Bull.
Fastnbulbous: I like your posting but you seem to be rather naive about racing here. Was today a race? NO, for OSU it was just a qualifying run and that is how they did it, they went for a run. You can tell squat about exactly how good the top OSU guys are from their finish. My guess is that GF was not SUPPOSED sprint at the end - coaches instructions. He is supposed to save that for nine days. They will need everything that they have got to beat Oregon and the coach is not going to risk wasting it on a meaningless sprint at the end when the runner is tired. Look how close that OSU pack was together - the best runners in that group could certainly have out-run their teammates by 20 seconds and probably twice that. Would doing so have better prepared GF?
As for Oregon, with them having the team race in the bag I have to wonder how good Rupp is. Even on a short and fast course, this is pretty good.
You folks are missing my point, which is hardly naive. It's clear to all of us that the OK State guys were instructed to take it easy. I'm not doubting that as a sound strategy for a team that has it in the bag.
My question is whether a real champion can always be a good team player. Some runners are good pack runners, do what they're told, and get the job done. Others might have trouble following rules because their desire to win is too great. I don't expect him to beat Rupp. But how close he ends up to him depends on whether he has that something extra that will drive him to consistently win championships after this. It'll be interesting.
I was at the midwest regional yesterday. It was kinda cold and windy. Plus if you have ever ran that course you know how brutal it can be. The OSU guys ran smooth and looked very relaxed. If you look at the result you can kinda get an idea of how the race played out. They went through the 5k at 16:07-8 then finished with a pretty sinificant negative split. Judging by the look on Hassan Mead's face as he came up the last hill and down the last 200m there was no way he was going to let anyone beat him.
I think Oregon needs to be scared come nationals. OSU had a 1 second spread from 1-4 and 5 was only 30 seconds back. Plus you still have to add in Lowe (5th @ BIG 12, OSU#4) and Watts (OSU #7 @ BIG 12, 52rd OSU #3 at 07 Nats).
what a joke. i was there as well. the guys were talking the entire race. they were TOLD to take it easy. this bullcrap about pre this and pre that is ridiculous. quite frankly, i don't care how good a guy is, pulling antics by blatantly doing what the coach tells him specifically NOT to do gets you kicked off any team that i have been on. stop thinking it's cool because pre was a rebel or whatever. give it a rest. find a coach that you can listen to and trust.
I think the highest placed freshmen at any regional was Girma Mecheso, who continues his fantastic freshmen year
Fastandbulbous:
Maybe you (along with all those that were "disappointed" in Viren below) should spend a little time learning the strategy behind the sport...
From another thread:
From Lasse Viren: Olympic Champion:
> More than half a straight behind Simmons, Lasse Viren neared the finish. He did not kick; he just glanced behind him to be sure that nobody surprised him. To qualify for the final was enough for him, even as the fourth (last) man. He was not interested in anything more--yet. Lasse Viren used his mind as much as his legs, but not many of the fans packed into the huge stands understood. They had come to see an all-out race.
"It is reasonable to insure a place in the final by kicking hard if chased by a cluster of men, but I don't understand why Simmons kicked. He was followed by nobody. When one has to run flat out only two days later, it is completely maniacal to spend energy in the heats and unnecessarily tire the muscles. I shall never do that, for I haven't got the slightest need to excel at the wrong moment."
oh yeah, in case you lost count, Viren is the guy that actually won the gold medals. Think how good he could have been if he had been more of a rebel. 4th maybe?
ngong hills wrote:
what a joke.
really?? wrote:
Maybe you...should spend a little time learning the strategy behind the sport...
Is it so difficult to understand I was simply posing a question for discussion, and not insulting your mother? Is it impossible to have a discussion without being rude and insulting?
I'm interested in insights into what people might think goes on in the minds of champions. The Viren example is not really comparable, a prelim held a day or two before the final, to a Regional championship 9 days before nationals.
It's doubtful whether a hard effort over a week before would be harmful. It appears that Rupp and most of the others ran just about all out yesterday at West Region.
If anyone wants to do the homework, it would be interesting to see what the pattern is for past national champions, especially the repeat ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men%27s_Cross_Country_Championship29:18 3 German Fernandez, OK State, 31:20 5th Midwest
29:40 9 Chris Derrick, Stanford, 28:44 5th West
29:56 14 Luke Puskedra, Oregon, 28:45 6th West
29:58 15 Girma Mesecho, Auburn, 30:50 3rd South
30:24 37 Colby Lowe, OK State
30:50 81 Vince McNally, Penn State, 31:52 6th MA
30:56 92 Eric Fernandez, Arkansas, 30:53 7th SC
30:59 97 Brian Leung, Princeton, 32:19 9th MA
31:08 105 Ryan Hill, NC State, 31:26 27 SE
31:20 110 Rick Elliott, Arkansas, 31:57 27 SC
31:23 115 Joseph Miller, Notre Dame, 32:01 20 GL
Diego Estrada is a true freshamn from northern arizona and will be among the top five freshman at nationals this year. he ran a 24:26 at pre-nats then went onto run a 23:33 at his conference meet only a few seconds behind his teamates. and just this past weekend ran a 30:09 10k and placed 16th at the mountain regionals! Go Diego!
That's excellent news. I hadn't realized he was a freshman. I had him ranked already in my other thread:
104 31:04 Diego Estrada, Northern Arizona, 3rd Big Sky, 30:09 16th MTN
He didn't run quite as well at Region as he did at Big Sky, but he could crack the top 100 if he returns to form. I doubt he'd beat Colby Lowe, but he has a great future.
I talked to diego after his race and he said he felt completely relaxed felt like a workout, and that his coach told him to just cruise. apparently he was in about 30th and his coach said he should start moving up at 8k so in the last 2k he grabbed almost 15 guys. this kid is the real deal.
some history on him....
he ran 9:19 3200 as a soph. in high school
junior and senior year was injured but still managed a 9:04 3200 his senior year. now hes completely healthy and breaking through towards is potential!!
Go Diego!!
Fastnbulbous wrote:
*Chris Derrick, Stanford, 28:44 5th West
*Luke Puskedra, Oregon, 28:45 6th West
*Girma Mesecho, Auburn, 30:50 3rd South
*German Fernandez, OK State, 31:20 5th Midwest
*Vince McNally, Penn State, 31:52 6th MA
*Eric Fernandez, Arkansas, 30:53 7th SC
*Brian Leung, Princeton, 32:19 9th MA
*Ryan Hill, NC State, 31:26 27 SE
*Rick Elliott, Arkansas, 31:57 27 SC
*Joseph Miller, Notre Dame, 32:01 20 GL
Andrew Brodeur, Duke, 31:51 40 SE
John Luttrell, Kentucky, 32:07 50 SE
Levi Grandt, Richmond, 32:14 53 SE
Brian Welch, Virginia Tech, 32:17 55 SE
Kyle Powers, Liberty, 32:18 58 SE
Luke Lovelace, Louisville, 32:19 59 SE
Michael Hammond, Virginia Tech, 32:27 61 SE
you forgot Kipchumba, freshman by elligibility(sp?) not age. beat Derrick and Puskedra with ease