Why did Hall run a "smart race"

One word: Acclimatization.

Stew is correct folks.

Rothlin won silver in Osaka's heat becuase he carried out textbook like acclimatization. Wanjiru trains full time in Japan's heat.

Hall showed up and was surprised by the heat?

One word: Acclimatization. Look no further.

“He started the first five and 10 kilometres fast. His coach also advised him to assess the opposition. It’s hot and humid in Beijing and that’s why it was important for Wanjiru to run fast in the lead group so that by the time the temperatures rise, it would be difficult for the chasing pack to get him.”

An interesting strategy no one has brought up. I wonder if either Hall or Ritzenhein considered how much harder it would be to push the pace in the latter stages of the race as the temps rise. Any thoughts?

loholloran... interesting point. I wonder why they didn't, it would have been a smart plan. I'm guessing they are still very competitive with each other (carry-over from Foot Locker CC days) and were probably not interested in helping each other.

I don't understand the posters who are defending the American runners, their Oly race strategies, etc. National pride is great, but the bottom line is that USA distance running stinks.

And not only does it stink, but it will never be competitive on the world stage again. Ever. (Well, not unless we continue to consider naturalized citizens as "American" runners.) Runners from other countries, namely Africa, are simply hungrier.

P.S. I didn't catch any of Hall's post-race comments. Did he happen to mention that it was God's plan for him to tank?

To me, a normal Hall should've gotten the 2:10 bronze. The temps weren't crazy, at all. But he didn't have it that day, as he's proven to not shy from a risky race. So is everyone mad at Hall, for not ripping 14:50 5K's, in a race that he didn't have it??

If you read this article from RW with an interview from T Mahon, it doesn't seem to hint at any fitness issues or lack of heat/humidity prep.

I think Ryan just got "stuck in the middle" on this. He decided not to go with the leaders and then got caught running alone which makes you work harder than running in a pack. If the other runners had been able to form a real second pack with Ritz, Hall, the Swiss guy, et al, then I think Hall and Ritz would have had a shot to hang on for bronze.

The idea that everyone is equally built for warm conditions is laughable. Was the winner even sweating when he finished? You wanna hear some bitching about conditions, listen to the Kenyans make excuses about the awful cold on a 45 degree day. These guys are so tiny that they have much greater surface area than mass and just disspate heat better, which is why they are loaded up in sweats in even mildly cool weather. I bet you can google up some articles where Kenyans in late fall races compain bitterly about frigid weather when it is like 45 degrees.

Just think how much grief he'd be getting now from you marathon experts if he had gone out with the leaders who were 1:02:34 at half.

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/AT/C73L/ATM099101.shtml#ATM099101

Ryan ran a very smart race (1:04:29 at half).

After further review, no one ran like a Kenyan (negative splits) except for #2125 Ruggero Pertile of Italy who was in 52nd place at halfway (1:07:17) and finished 15th in 2:13:39. He was 14 seconds behind Baldini at the finish although at halfway Stefano was more than a minute ahead of him. Pertile beat a ton of people who went through halfway in 1:03, 1:04 and 1:05.

The Americans were 12th, 17th and 41st at halfway and finished 9th, 10th and 22nd.

The official Beijing website also mentioned 24 degrees celsius (76 degrees fahrenheit) for the start.

Brian wrote:

The idea that everyone is equally built for warm conditions is laughable. Was the winner even sweating when he finished? You wanna hear some bitching about conditions, listen to the Kenyans make excuses about the awful cold on a 45 degree day. These guys are so tiny that they have much greater surface area than mass and just disspate heat better, which is why they are loaded up in sweats in even mildly cool weather. I bet you can google up some articles where Kenyans in late fall races compain bitterly about frigid weather when it is like 45 degrees.

I was at a half marathon in May where an Ethiopian DNF'd for hypothermia when it was ~50 degrees.

Another possible outcome of going with the leaders.

36 1569 KIFLE Yonas Eritrea

Nov 05 1977

14:52 (2)

14:34 29:26 (5)

15:11 44:37 (2)

14:33 59:10 (2)

3:24 1:02:34 (1)

11:24 1:13:58 (1)

15:31 1:29:29 (5)

16:36 1:46:05 (4)

23:27 2:09:32 (26)

2:20:23 (36)

lohalloran wrote:

I think this kind of "it's good enough" thinking is bad for American distance running. Unless we set our sights higher we are never going to catch or compete with the Kenyans.

OK, that's fine. But in the long term, setting your sights higher doesn't necessarily preclude being realistic about what you can achieve on a particular race day.

I read this whole thread and this comment by malmo is the one that sticks out at me.

"Lel beat Wanjiru handily at London. He will probably beat him again in the future, and Wanjiru will probably return the favor."

Do you guys get it yet? It's a race. No one in the history of elite running has gotten better every race they've run. There are poor races, average races, great races and dnf's in every elite runners career.

You can't over analyze one race, much less a marathon, whether that performance be grand or dismal, and extrapolate that performance to be a predictor of things to come.

Making sweeping judgments about the entire future of American distance running because Ryan Hall didn't go out with the leaders for one race on August 23rd, 2008 is absurd.

don't know if this was mentioned but in the tape hall said he hadn't been able to get to 4:40 in his tempos, only to 5 flat.

Hall ran well. His splits (~1:04:30, ~1:08:00) certainly don't suggest that he went too conservatively. I think he left what he had on the course. You could critique his preparation, maybe, but it's not reasonable to suggest he should have gone out FASTER when he already positive split harder than he'd have liked.

Surprise! wrote:

Do you guys get it yet? It's a race. No one in the history of elite running has gotten better every race they've run. There are poor races, average races, great races and dnf's in every elite runners career.

You can't over analyze one race, much less a marathon, whether that performance be grand or dismal, and extrapolate that performance to be a predictor of things to come.

Making sweeping judgments about the entire future of American distance running because Ryan Hall didn't go out with the leaders for one race on August 23rd, 2008 is absurd.

You make too much sense for letsrun. I would like to suggest that the mods ban you from the forum...

It's a lot more fun to read stuff from morons that have never run a marathon to think that a guy that split 1:04/1:08 that day should've gone out in 1:02, medalled, and proved that they should've been Hall's coach.

I'm just guessing, but I think Hall and Ritz probably ran according to the strategy they and their coaches planned out and adjusted according to their plans and the way the race played out. It's just that Wanjiru turned out to be Superman and kicked everybody's ass that day. You win some, you lose some.

It isn't just the marathon, American distance running sucks. Shalane was the lone bright spot for us. Otherwise this Olympics was an embarassment. Everyone thought we were going to have a breakthrough this time around, medals for Abdi, Rupp, Teg, Hall, 2 for Lagat. But everyone fell apart. I know that bad days happen, especially in distance races. But I think this Olympics was a clear sign that we aren't anywhere near as good as we thought we were.

The marathon was a great indicator of this- you need hunger, aggression and talent to win at this level. We have talent and I'm sure some guys are hungry, but we don't have agression. Bekele running his last mile of the 5k in 3:57...Wanjiru going out in 4:41......Sure, they are talented but don't think for a second that they aren't hurting just as bad as the guys 10 places behind them. These guys hang everything out there and go for it, we sit back and hope someone else screws up and lets us sneak in. They also sacrifice themselves for the greater good. Look at Geb leading the 10k for Bekele and Sihine or Lel pushing the pace with Wanjiru until he was so shot that he tapped him on the shoulder and told him to go for the win before dropping back.

The end result of all this is that we need to do things differently if we want to be a threat on the world stage.

"Everyone thought we were going to have a breakthrough this time around, medals for Abdi, Rupp, Teg, Hall, 2 for Lagat."

No one thought Abdi, Rupp or Teg were going to get medals.

That moments with Lel motioning Wanjiru ahead was priceless. It still makes me wonder why Ritz and Hall didn't work together? If Meb and Hall had both been in the race, there's no question they would have worked together to try to make a dent in the gap. Is their rivalry so intense that they can't set it aside?

[quote]ahhhh wrote:

Honestly the silver and bronze medals seem like PC nonsense to me...I guess I have the same mentality as the tennis coach at my old school. He made the tennis team leave any non-first place trophies (including state runner-up) in the parking lot of the tournament and drove the bus away because he believed that a championship is about winning...

quote]

You should feel lucky you aren't a twin who came out a few seconds after your sibling. Of course a parking lot dumpster is where you should have been anyway with a view like that.