Harsh treatment of bandit

Ever download music, dub a cassette tape, record something from TV? If so, YOU ARE A CHEAT AND A THIEF AND YOU SHOULD NOT BE THE FIRST TO THROW STONES!

Getting back to the original post.....!!!!!!! I think it depends on the situation. If the bandit was pacing one of the lead women or someone trying to qualify for the trials, and was asked to stop and he refused, he should have his arse busted. If it was some shmuck trying to kiss his women's arse by helping her through the last few miles of a 5 hour marathon, he drops out before the line, he doesn't bother anyone or steal food and drink, who cares?

I have seen a top runner in this country who constantly has her husband on the bike with her. At times, it is cheating, at times, it is not of any assistance at all. He usually stops when asked, but I've also seen him get upset. It is possible there are others out there who are not as composed as he is.

Go ahead, charge blindly into the gray area of emotionally charged accusations and baseless rationalizations.

Failed comparison, yet again...MLB game is something where being a fan is part of the experience. When you run a race, running the race is the experience. Tell me of one race organizer who has ever sued for theft of services or goods. Tell me of one person who has been arrested for banditing simply for running...that is, not pissing off some cop or some other similar moronic activity.

Work on your skills to recognize similar relationships before you try to splits hairs. We got a deal? (By the way, a deal is an agreement by both parties on some particular matter.)

Ps: the word "gane"...what is that? I've never heard it before.

M'kay, I've had about enough of this crap from both you and "I've bandited" as well. Both of you seem to want to bring up things to compare banditing to other crimes and wrong doings. It's people like you that will justify themselves by comparing stealing a billion dollars from a homeless fund or cancer research fund to banditing a race to make themselves feel better. Have I ever sped? Yes, I got a ticket for that just two months ago. Guess what....I paid the fine. You bandit, you don't pay squat. In order to be a bandit driver, I'd have to steal the car I'm driving in and put it on a road for paid drivers only. That would get me some jail time. Even better, it would be like using a toll road and just driving by the toll booth guy with out paying, and being proud of it, as well as not expecting any trouble from it. How does speeding affect hundreds of volunteers who give up a day to help out at a race, only to have someone show up to run without paying, then a few years later have the race dropped due to poor numbers (of paying runners)? Are there police out there voulunteering time to catch speeders that I'm cheating out of 20 bucks? And I'm not suggesting my shit don't stink, I'm just saying, I don't shit ON race officials, race for the cure cancer victims, volunteers, police, charities, the running community in general....

[quote]Sox Fan wrote:

Big Paul,

Do you speed when driving?

Ever not fully stop at a stop sign and not look the required left-right-left before proceeding?

Ever not yield the right of way?

Ever swear in front of a kid?

You are right on, here. I agree. I think anyone who bandits should get a ticket from the police just like anyone who gets caught doing any of your first 3 examples. But to be honest with you, I work across the street from a middle school, and I've heard those kids swear more than me.

Now we seem to have gotten waaaaayyyyy off the original topic here. I think it was should a guy who was pacing his wife for the last SIX miles of a race, (not the WHOLE thing like some of you ENTIRE RACE banditing types out there) have been arrested for this. Please stop with the idiotic comarisons of banditing a race to other crimes or unethical behavior. It makes no sense. I say this, and I normally like to make analogies. Its just like my other favorite one. I made this one in the 8th grade. Is it illegal to drink and drive? No. Its illegal to drink and drive with a blood alchol level above the state's legal limit. How the hell are you supposed to know when you're at .10 or .13?? You don't. Just don't drink anything to be safe. Dammit, now you've got me doing it. Just pay the money and sign the waiver to run the race or go somewhere else to run where the running community would be that day if they were'nt racing and have that place to yourself. Great, now I've got a headache.

I'll echo what you're saying a different way:

People try to cheat in countless different ways. If a person bandits and is not registered, that's not cheating anyone else IN the race since the person cannot receive recognition or reward for their efforts. Now, you can say that it affects others who feel harmed by the interference. However, when it helps someone, they're not going to complain that some guy who wasn't registered helped them run a faster time.

So, we have a double standard. When people feel slightly by a non-registered participant, they hold people's feet to the fire. But, when this non-registered participant helps, it's an unspoken issue.

As far as race directors go, there's a liability and risk involved that people might/will do stupid things. In the whole realm of problems, however, a bandit running some portion of the course with his significant other who has no chance of affecting the awards is harming no one. It may not be what some of you think is fair, but, as a race director all it's going to do is get you a bad reputation. Can that really be controlled...no. If it's that big of a deal, there should be controlled race start zones, closed courses and controlled finishes. Otherwise, you have to trust people.

DJ -

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. I HATE BANDITS, AND I HATE SPEEDERS. If you confess to speeding, then I'm repulsed by that inexcusable behavior and the nonchalant manner in which you dismiss it. You say that you paid the fines. So, are you only paying the fines when you get caught? Or, was the occasion that you got caught the last time you've sped? If not, you really need to go pay ALL the fines for the times you have exceeded the speed limit. QUIT TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH EVERYTHING AND JUSTIFY IT TO YOURSELF AS OK, YOU DELUSIONAL FOOL (this goes for all other speeders as well as anyone reading this from their place of work).

In case anyone cares to know what I really think on this (sans sarcasm), read NYCross' post on the previous page. He states it perfectly.

No, I don't think banditing is ideal. And, if asked to step off, one should definitely do so without questioning. However, I fail to see how 1) running with the permission of the RD, 2) pacing a friend/family member for part of a run, or 3) hopping in a race after missing the registration is so deplorable. Have you ever signed up and paid for a race that you were unable to compete in? Did you get your money back? Seems to me the RDs are partaking in unethical behavior should they not refund at least the lion's share of the fee. Is it a big deal to me that they don't? No. Is it a big deal when I see a bandit? No.

I've read enough from the general LR crowd, and can easily see how banditing is a nothing compared to many other things that you would not think twice about. It is comical to me how anti-banditing some of you are.

I think you're definitely onto something and I remember thinking a similar thought yesterday. Perhaps it's just that too many mid-packers/wannabe elites are so serious about running (maybe even obsessed with competition) that they lose perspective of the matter.

So, we have a double standard. When people feel slightly by a non-registered participant, they hold people's feet to the fire. But, when this non-registered participant helps, it's an unspoken issue.

Will, I don't agree with the above quote. It is not a double standard. If a pacer is helping one person, particularly in a championship/cash situation, then they are hurting someone else.

You've just proven my point: it's not okay for "big" races, but, people don't complain at small ones unless of course to them it was a "big" race.

Everyone on here knows that I am against banditing. That is someone who takes away from the competition by partaking of the goods or hindering another runner. But, by the discription, this guys was not a bandit. He is a baligerant, possible drunk, that deserves to be arrested for not doing what the cop asked, but he is not a bandit. I bet this guy goes and rents movies and lets his wife watch them. Should she not be allowed to do so. He paid for it and can use the movie services as he pleases. She paid for the race and if she wants some encouragement along the way then there is nothing wrong with this. It was still in the realm of fair play. She wasn't winning and they never hurt anyone. When I run a race on a small town track and the croud is only on one side of the track you bet I run faster past them. I can feel the energy. Should we outlaw the croud from running because it is helping someone succeed? After all running is a sport where you can't have help, PAUL.

I would hardly describe this man as a bandit.His motive was to help his wife finish not to run in the race.Would it have been acceptable if he had paid an entry fee and then paced his wife over the most difficult part of the marathon.

A true bandit is someone who uses the the facilities that the director has purchased.

Remember,the Boston Marathon was only made trully open by some fiesty women running as bandits.

The policeman should never tried to pull the runner if he was not interfering with the other racers.For many runners it is finishing a maraton that counts not the time.Show some common sense rather than officiousness.The arrested man probbly called the policeman a jerk.That was dumd,but the policeman did act like a jerk.

Hey, moron, I asked you to stop with the comparisons. It's ridiculous to compare something millions do everyday, driving, to something only a select few jackasses do on race days, banditing. Besides, I pay a toll fee EVERY TIME I use a toll road. I paid for my car BEFORE I PUT IT ON THE ROAD. I pay to run a race BEFORE I TOE THE LINE. See the difference? Speeding-Bad. Driving-Okay. Banditing-Bad. Racing-Okay. Your question reguarding my driving history is pointless. If you'd like to bash me as a driver, go to some driving or speeding message board and bash me all you want. This issue is about running and banditing, not speeding, copying music, or any other crap you brought up before. I can tell by your own chosen id name which side of the bandit issue you are on. You don't pay to do what you should pay for. That makes you different than me. I pay when I use my car. You do not pay when you run in races. Now, since you chose to disreguard my last paragraph of my last post, let me refresh your memory. It basically suggests that we get back to the question at hand. Is it okay to pace someone for the last SIX MILES of a marathon, (not like you ENTIRE race bandits), or should this person have been arrested? I'll only respond to you again if you can intelligently address THIS issue. We obviously disagree on a LOT of things, and I'm totally against FULL RACE BANDITING.

Will wrote:

I've bandited before. I know it's wrong, but, I've done it.

I think this is what bothers me most about this thread. You've made no secret that you are a devout Christian, Will, and on occasion, it seems as though you hold yourself up to be "better" than others because of it.

Now, we see that you are banditing races, which is basically stealing. How, exactly, do you justify this within the confines of your faith?

OK, DJ, I am sorry if I took my sarcasm a bit too far. And, really, although I named you, my issue isn't really with you. You seem somewhat reasonable.

While I acknowledge that my comparisons have been annoying, they are not ridiculous. They do show the unbelievable hypocrisy with which some of you are approaching this subject. Yes, millions speed (myself included), it is against the law, and we turn a bind eye to it. I am looking for someone to say, "Yes, just as we should not bandit, we should not speed either."

I am not an advocate of banditing, I assure you. But, what we are talking about here is an activity that is not as black and white as many of you guys make it out to be. You yourself are making a distinction between a "full race bandit" vs. a "non-full race bandit". There are maybe a few times that I've witnessed someone banditing excessively (ie crossing the line and screwing things up, or eating the food, etc.), but there have been many times that I really don't see what issue you could have in the way it is done many times, and I see it as extremely trivial when we are talking about the "wrongs" that people do. My beef with this thread isn't so much about people thinking that it is wrong, it is with how much conviction and how big of deal they are making out of this nothing.

If a husband wants to pace his wife for her marathon, but not pay the $100, I don't really care, and if she is not competitive, then I don't see how it hurts anyone. If a little boy chases his Dad to the finish, I see this as a beautiful family moment... to believe this boy is heinous for his banditing? Please, c'mon? If a HSer is looking for a workout, but does not have the ludicrous 25$ that many races look for that is used to buy stuff (that he does not care about anyway), I could care less if he runs with me in the race and passes me as we near the end. If some daughter did not make the registration because her mom was late in getting her there, I think she should "race" anyway. I say these things having been the race director for several races and having raced in many more.

I guess I see races differently than most of you. I primarily see races as a gathering of people to get together and have a run.. some competing harder than others. I see them as a $$ making venture, secondarily.

As for the issue, I don't see an issue with pacing someone for the last 6 miles of a marathon. However, both people need to be aware of the rules and be willing to swallow the consequences if called out. If someone is vying for the win, let's say, or trying to qualify for the OT, they need to be able to admit what they did, should their effort be nullified. The same goes for people who take food/liquid from non-volunteers on the course. Most of the time, this isn't an issue (as no one would care), but it is against the rules and considered an unfair advantage, and you could keep you from winning/qualifying should someone take issue with it.

Not getting it wrote:

At the next 49ers home game I'm going to go out onto the field and do some strides. Its my field goddammit and I have as much right to be out there as anyone.

Great! Another receiver for Garcia to throw to. That'll piss T.O. off even more!

Look back a page or two. I said I've bandited and I know it's wrong. But, let's define it...again. I don't finish the race. I get the approval from the race directors. I don't interfere with the other participants cause I only do it at races I'll be fast enough to lose them by the mile. I don't take any goods from the race. Now, the last time I bandited was at least 3 years ago and I can only recall having done it 10, maybe 15 times in my life, under the conditions listed above.

In my mind, what I am saying is not stealing (cause I'm not taking anything and the RD gives me permission, even though I don't pay). It's not cheating (cause I'm not racing for place or prize). It's just not what you guys think is right.

As far as being better than others, did you read the whole, I'm not perfect thing. I know that. Show me where I come across that way and I would be glad to hear what you have to say. But pointing it out doesn't really enlighten me or help your argument so why are you doing it?

As far as me having to justify my actions by the faith I hold, show me one scripture that says "Thou shalt not bandit" and I will stop immediately. Christianity is about loving God and loving others as you love yourself...not road racing. If you want to talk about salvation and faith, I'm fine with that. If you want to talk about a nebulous gray area of an activity we all enjoy, I don't think dragging faith into the matter really does much good.

I think some of what you said about the prices of road race registration plays a part in my sense of rationalizing what I do. To charge $20-30 for a race is exorbitant. (I've put on several races by myself, so, I know how much work it takes...don't go there.) These people make a lot of money for the work they do. To assume that I should pay $20.00 to run part of the course (say I want to do a time trial and like the race atmosphere) is unnecessary. If I get permission from the RD to do it, I think I should be able to; they run the races...so, if they allow it, it should be alright with everyone else there since they are the one in control of the event. People are too passionate about this. Look at the big picture: there are murders, terrorists, rapists, child molesters and spousal abusers everywhere. Put some of your rage into dealing with those issues instead of pointing fingers at sporting folks who are just trying to enjoy themselves without getting bled dry by every over-priced race that pops up.

Thanks guys. I never thought of banditing a race before but I've been really impressed with this thread. I always enjoyed taking things just a little farther than I was supposed to. Therefore, I am looking at upcoming races in my area to find the perfect one to bandit.

My goal will be to run the entire race, partake of any goodies afterwards and make of with at least a tee shirt. I'll be happy to report back with the results. I expect to try my hand at this little game on the weekend of Halloween. I'll let you know.

To any of you classic bandits: Any advice you may have for a first timer will be greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to the thrill.