I knew he'd get ripped on this board ... only at Let's Run, simply amazing. Can't anyone accomplish something great in running these days without being blasted? Then again, we have jealous 5-minute milers doing the criticizing.
I knew he'd get ripped on this board ... only at Let's Run, simply amazing. Can't anyone accomplish something great in running these days without being blasted? Then again, we have jealous 5-minute milers doing the criticizing.
I didn't really see this guy get ripped, but I didn't read every post...
That said this guy's time is legit! The first mile is rolling downhill so a 4:22 (or 4:28 as some have said) is not as "fast" as it sounds. That said you have to climb that same decent to get back to the finish which makes the last mile HARD. I don't think people really know how hard this course is. It is not a fast course and is rolling with quite a bit of uphill. It is not on a nice golf course either and the start is a hazard to say the least with 200 kids having a 100 meter sprint to funnel down.
There are a ton of insane courses out there but this is a tough championship course and th ekid ran fast...way to go!
age graded? wrote:
how old is German?
His coach posted on dyestat in July that he was still only 16. If/when he has turned 17, not sure.
The results from the half marathon that he ran last Feb list him as 17 at the time, but I assume the info from his coach is more accurate.
To put this into perspective, because I'm sure this kid could have jogged the course at 15:00 and continued on, this was I believe the last time NCAA Western Regionals were held on that course:
November 14 at NCAA Regional-8 Championships (Fresno, Ca)
Men's Team Results (10,000 meters)
1. Stanford 37; 2. Oregon 65; 3. Washington State 129; 4. Arizona 133; 4. Portland 133; plus 18 other teams
Individual Results (10,000 meters, 157 runners)
1. Abdi Abdirahman, Arizona 30:06
2. Brad Hauser, Stanford 30:12
3. Matt Davis, Oregon 30:23
4. Bernard Lagat, Washington State 30:37
5. Jason Balkman, Stanford 30:42
6. Brent Hauser, Stanford 30:44
7. Mark Hauser, UCLA 30:46
8. Steve Fein, Oregon 30:53
9. Rob Aubrey, Oregon 30:58
10. Jon Weldon, Stanford 31:03
11. Tim Carey, Boise State 31:03
12. Christian Belz, Washington 31:05
13. Todd Davis, Portland 31:07
14. Thomas Murley, Stanford 31:12
15. David Bazzi, Washington 31:13
Abdi - Olympian - 27:22 10K PR
Brad Hauser - Olympian
Matt Davis - 5th at NCAA Cross
Bernard Lagat - Double Olympic Gold medalist 12:59 5K PR
Steve Fein - 3rd at NCAA Cross
Christian Belz - Swiss Olympian - 37:53 10K, 13:12 5K PRs
Todd Davis - All American Steeple
Thomas Murley - 17th at NCAA Cross
Dave Bazzi - U of Washington 10K Record Holder -28:34
I was at that race and conditions were very decent. I have a feeling this German would be able to mix it up in this race.
[quote]Woodward Park Course Stomper wrote:
Bernard Lagat - Double Olympic Gold medalist 12:59 5K PR
oh?
This was the last time they held regionals there.... NCAA WEST REGION CROSS COUNTRY CHAMPIONSHIPS
Hosted by Fresno State
Woodward Park - Fresno, CA
Saturday November 13, 2004
*** MEN'S 10K/6.21 Miles - OVERALL RESULTS ***
Results by PRO RACE GROUP of Fresno (www.proracegroup.com)
====================================================================================================================
Ovrll TEAM Finish PACE Race
PLACE Plce NAME ABBR/SCHOOL CLASS TIME p/mile NO.
====== ==== =============================== =========================================== ===== ======== ====== ======
1 1 Ryan Hall STAN/Stanford University Sr. 30:07 4:51 16
2 2 Robert Cheseret UoA/University of Arizona So. 30:12 4:52 189
3 3 Neff Araia STAN/Stanford University Sr. 30:16 4:53 10
4 4 Aaron Aguayo ASU/Arizona State University Jr. 30:23 4:54 140
5 Forest Braden BSU/Boise State University Jr. 30:28 4:55 224
6 5 Jon Rankin UCLA/University of California Los Angeles Sr. 30:30 4:55 137
7 6 John Moore UoP/University of Portland Fr. 30:37 4:56 168
8 7 Juan Reyes ASU/Arizona State University Sr. 30:38 4:56 146
9 8 Eric Logsdon UofO/University of Oregon Sr. 30:41 4:57 83
10 9 Jon Pierce STAN/Stanford University So. 30:41 4:57 20
The kid ran excellent. That is amazing a high school kid could do that. Lets also think about something. Ive heard the kid is running 80-90 miles a week, and the kid looks 20. Thats why he can run so fast. Most high school students dont run that much, so I dont believe we will see that much improvement the first year in college. So whoever said he can keep up with the top NCAA 1 runners is an idiot. He wil be in the mix with everyone else or even injured running that much in High School. Dont get me wrong he will do good but not as good as everyone thinks.
10K course is completely different from 5K course. You cannot simply double his time to get a comparable 10K time.
Amazing performance.
California has 5 different divisions based on school size. However, the individual sections of California determine the divisions not the State CIF. There is not one final race that pits the top teams and individuals in one race.
The course also used to be the Footlocker West regional qualiying site so many of ther top western states runners have run the course.
derej wrote:
you cannot "move up" at the Cal state meet. The divisions are set by the CIF each year and there is no movement.
so did they change the rules? they used to allow teams to declare earlier in the year whether they would run their respective divisions or move up to a higher one (obviously you are not allowed to move down). one example from the 90s is jason balkman, whose school (lynbrook) was division 3. first two years he ran D3, junior year he ran D2, and then senior year D1.
you usually see schools with good individuals move up, because good teams want to stay in the division they're in so they ensure a good placing (D3 champs as opposed to 7th in D1.).
Make no mistake about it German is as good as any US High Schooler ever at the 5K X distance. 80-90 will provide a solid foundation. Progression will come from even more miles, f*** trying to leash a talent you let these types of guys run, if he wants to do 150 Miles a week I would support it. Look at the Japanese, they run a ton, it will only make him or break him. Try to leash him to be great at 24-25 what you'll get is just another good US middle distance runner. Unleash him and let him explore his limits and who knows what will happen.
90 wrote:
The kid ran excellent. That is amazing a high school kid could do that. Lets also think about something. Ive heard the kid is running 80-90 miles a week, and the kid looks 20. Thats why he can run so fast. Most high school students dont run that much, so I dont believe we will see that much improvement the first year in college. So whoever said he can keep up with the top NCAA 1 runners is an idiot. He wil be in the mix with everyone else or even injured running that much in High School. Dont get me wrong he will do good but not as good as everyone thinks.
Written by his coach:
"9th played frosh FB wide receiver, played frosh basketball, came out for track in feb. a Took 1st in TVL in 800,1600, 3200. Sections 1st in 1600 and 3200. At masters meet missed state by a place with a 4:22.95 (4th he was 14 at the time)
9-10th summer DNR was going to play soccer in Fall decided to run CC in late Aug.
10th trained like a frosh as needed base :mileage low 30s. Ran 15:14 for 5K at State Decided to run FootLocker last minute but bombed Very disappointed in himself for his effort the last mile. Went out for basketball but tore medial miniscus (sp) over xmas break. Injury not diagnosed accurately and tried to run track. Ran 4:21 in first race. Injury kept acting up and had to miss most of the season. Did not tell head coach he was to going to have knee surgery as they needed his points at the TVL Championship meet and he again took 1st in the 800,1600,& 3200 (the team won by one point.) Was limping between races Could not walk the next day and had knee surgery the following week.
10-11th summerNR because surgery found problem to be worse than diagnosed. Started walking in July. and riding stationary bike in Aug.
11th Started jogging , light strides late Sept. Oct. 10th Doctor okayed limited training and racing under coach's direction. Ran 15:36 for 2nd at State. No more basketball! Started to train all winter for track. Did not miss a day and ran 4:05 1500m in Feb as well as Half Marth. at 5:22/mile. MId March he was called upon for the 1600 Relay Ran 2x400m and 800 in 3days without any training for sprinting. Got a severe case of shin splints and could not do any speed work for 6wks. Mileage kept at low 30s.Sections 1600m (4:16.9) 3200m(9:40). Masters meet 3200m (9:13.8) State (9:08.05) The last month German used his races for his speed work and his base from winter training paid off.
Now: Runs 6 days a week under coach"s supervision. As his CC coach I can say he works very hard. I have to hold him back. He is a team player first and loves all sports. I have purposely kept his mileage low (as he is still only 16 ). He has slowly developed a passion for running. Needless to say he already has the competitive spirit that a champion athlete needs."
For some reason I do not believe he is running 80-90 mpw in 6 days and seeing pictures of him he looks like a senior in HS to me. I believe he turned 17 last month.
RFXCrunner wrote:
... Cabral has been somewhat overshadowed by the guys in other regions, but has had an excellent season himself, breaking the VCP record with a huge margin of victory...
for the records .....
Don ran a 15:09 and that is the FLNE meet record.
McDougal ran 15:08 which is the VCP record.
Good Luck at nationals Don.
German sounds tough, as well as Derrick.
It will be another exciting year.
96Owl wrote:
10K course is completely different from 5K course. You cannot simply double his time to get a comparable 10K time.
Amazing performance.
California has 5 different divisions based on school size. However, the individual sections of California determine the divisions not the State CIF. There is not one final race that pits the top teams and individuals in one race.
The course also used to be the Footlocker West regional qualiying site so many of ther top western states runners have run the course.
While they are not the exact same, I've raced the high school 5k course 3 times and I ran regionals there for college on the 10K. Obviously they are not the same. However, they are the same altitude, the same climate, the same footing, and most important they cover about 90-95% of the same ground with the rolling hills. It is actually a very fair comparison.
If German would have had to go left a couple times instead of right I'm sure he would have run just as fast.
It sounds like the course is pretty much run in the same areas, and I heard the 1st and last miles are the exact same. Any truth to that?
even so, I think it's silly to compare. A XC 10k is a quantum leap from an XC 5k, especially when one has a limited mileage background.
I think German is awesome, but I don't think he would be in contention to win the NCAA DI west region race right now.
midwaste wrote:
even so, I think it's silly to compare. A XC 10k is a quantum leap from an XC 5k, especially when one has a limited mileage background.
I think German is awesome, but I don't think he would be in contention to win the NCAA DI west region race right now.
With his limited mileage backround, he started a half marathon as a training run with his girlfriend and about 2 miles into it got hungry, caught the leaders, and won it with an average of 5:22 pace. That means he was running well under 5:22's for his last 11 miles.
He also ran 4:38+'s for 5K on the Woodward Park course. Of course you can't say he WOULD do this or that. But you can speculate based on his results (Like everyone does with Teg, Webb etc. Obviously it's a stretch, but it's not insane.
Think of what you run for 5K and what you run for 10K. What does it take for you to continue another 5K, how much do you have to slow down? Remember this kid ran completely alone, no help whatsoever. He also has about no base or consistency in training behind him.
Actually with his injuries he may want to consider going to Oregon (if he can afford it)and log some miles on the underwater treadmill, no joke. If you are not healthy it doesn't matter where you go or how much talent you have. Health is the most important.
I have a question, how did Mark Davis run his freshman year at NCAA cross?
The Kid is on the Level wrote:
He also has about no base or consistency in training behind him.
Yes, that's an important point, and one of the reasons I don't think he'd do as well over 10k XC (right now). I think he has all the promise in the world, but he just needs some more time under his belt with consistent training.
His half marathon, while impressive for a high school kid, would be a training run for any DI guy who could even sniff the top 10 at the west regional.
2003 footlocker fan wrote:
for the records .....
Don ran a 15:09 and that is the FLNE meet record.
McDougal ran 15:08 which is the VCP record.
The course that McDougal ran the 15:08 is not the exact same course as the FLNE layout- start and finish are in slightly different places. The VCP layout that Donn ran 15:09 on had a course record of 15:14 by Marty Beauchamp back in '82 (I think?). I know that is pretty nitpicky, as probably 95% of the course was the same, but if you want to get technical, they're different courses.
The Kid is on the Level wrote:
He also ran 4:38+'s for 5K on the Woodward Park course. Of course you can't say he WOULD do this or that. But you can speculate based on his results (Like everyone does with Teg, Webb etc. Obviously it's a stretch, but it's not insane.
Obviously no one would do that with Tegenkamp though, as we all know he would never run that distance.
90 wrote:
The kid ran excellent. That is amazing a high school kid could do that. Lets also think about something. Ive heard the kid is running 80-90 miles a week, and the kid looks 20. Thats why he can run so fast. Most high school students dont run that much, so I dont believe we will see that much improvement the first year in college. So whoever said he can keep up with the top NCAA 1 runners is an idiot. He wil be in the mix with everyone else or even injured running that much in High School. Dont get me wrong he will do good but not as good as everyone thinks.
Yeah, those 20km days really retarded Gebrselassie's development.
