What is Lananna thinking?

So basically, we can agree that Lananna's quote shows his ineptitude: he admits he can't win NCAAs running from the back, and we know that it has been done by other coaches in the past. Thus, Lananna cannot do what other coaches can do.

Lananna = Overrated.

[quote]V6ipam wrote:

So basically, we can agree that Lananna's quote shows his ineptitude: he admits he can't win NCAAs running from the back, and we know that it has been done by other coaches in the past. Thus, Lananna cannot do what other coaches can do.

And you forgot to add the most important part, that other coaches cannot do what he can.

But I understand your point. The guy only has the longest overall list of American Distance All-Americans, Conference Champions, Individual NCAA Champions, Team NCAA Champions (including the most recent) and Olympians of any distance coach around so he must be view as inept.

Good call.

Um, McDonnell has him beat there, by a LONG shot.

Ghost-buster wrote:

Um, McDonnell has him beat there, by a LONG shot.

--------------------------------------------------

"The guy only has the longest overall list of A-m-e-r-i-c-a-n D-i-s-t-a-n-c-e All-Americans, Conference Champions, Individual NCAA Champions, Team NCAA Champions (including the most recent) and Olympians of any distance coach around so he must be view as inept."

Are you sure? He has long list of champions and olympians and all americans, and the fact that he has focussed on indoor where Lanana has not would certainly help. Excluding sprinters, jumpers and throwers, and exlcluding Canadians, Tanzanians, Irishmen, Kenyans, Australians etc. etc. are you sure that McDonnell has him beat by a "LONG" shot, if at all? Lanana just racked up a handfull more a few weeks back. Did Arkansas add any?

The Vin Lananna Resume

Education

B.A. History, Psychology, C.W. Post College

M.A. Education, Long Island University

Athletic Experience

Distance Runner, C.W. Post College, 1971-75

Coaching Experience

C.W. Post College, Assistant Coach, 1975-79

Dartmouth College, Head Coach, 1980-91

Stanford University, Head Coach, 1992-2003

Coaching Honors

NCAA Cross Country Coach of the Year: 1986, ‘96, ‘97, ‘02

NCAA West Region Coach of the Year: 1994 (W), ‘95 (M&W), ‘96 (M), ‘97 (M), ‘98 (M), ‘99 (M), ‘02 (M&W)

Pac-10 Cross Country Coach of the Year: 1993 (W), ‘94 (W), ‘96 (M&W), ‘97 (M&W), 2000 (M), ‘01 (M), ‘02 (M&W), 2006 (M)

Pac-10 TF Coach of the Year: 2000 (M), ‘01 (M), '07 (M)

USA Team Head Coach - World Cross Country Championships: 1990, ‘96

USA Junior Team Head Coach - World Cross Country Championships: 1994

USA Team Assistant Coach - World Track & Field Championships: 1999

USA Team Assistant Coach - Olympic Games: 2004

Lananna's Oregon Track & Field Success

5 NCAA Top-15 Finishes

Men - Outdoor: 2006 (12th), '07 (10th); Indoor: 2006 (6th); Cross Country: 2006 (5th-tie)

Women - Outdoor: 2006 (11th)

1 NCAA Individual Title

Women: Outdoors: Rebekah Noble, 800m (2006)

2 NCAA Runner-up Honors

Women: Indoors: Rebekah Noble, 800m (2006, '07)

39 All-America Honors

2006-07: 12 Track & Field (7 Men / 5 Women); 2 Cross Country (2 Men)

2005-06: 25 Track & Field (15 Men / 10 Women)

Men's All-Americans

Cross Country

2006 - Galen Rupp, 6th; Diego Mercado, 49th

Outdoors

2007 - Tommy Skipper, 1st, Pole Vault (18-0 1/2); Galen Rupp, 2nd, 10,000m (28:56.19); Ryan Brandel, 7th, Javelin (225-11); Marcus Dillon, 400m, 9th-semifinal (46.18)

2006 - Tommy Skipper, 1st, Pole Vault (18-8 1/4); Matt Scherer, 5th, 400m (45.41); Eric Mitchum, 5th, 110m Hurdles (13.58); 4x400m Relay (sixth, 3:04.85); 4x100m Relay (seventh, 39.48).

Indoors

2007 - Galen Rupp, 5,000m, 3rd (13:40.38); 3,000m, 4th (7:56.79)

2006 - Tommy Skipper, 1st, Pole Vault (18-6 1/2); Eric Mitchum, 3rd, 60m Hurdles (7.58); Galen Rupp, 5th, 5,000m (13:56.41), 6th, 3,000m (8:07.85).

Women's All-Americans

Outdoors

2007 - Britney Henry, 5th, Hammer (214-9); Rachel Yurkovich, 5th, Javelin (170-0); Rebekah Noble, 8th, 800m (2:04.79)

2006 - Rebekah Noble, 1st, 800m (2:02.07); Brittany Hinchcliffe, 3rd, Hammer (212-3); Britney Henry, 4th, Hammer (208-7); Rachel Yurkovich, 7th, Javelin (165-2); Lauryn Jordan, 7th, Heptathlon (5,499).

Indoors

2007 - Rebekah Noble, 2nd, 800m (2:04.70); Britney Henry, 8th, Weight Throw (66-7)

2006 - Rebekah Noble, 2nd, 800m (2:05.72); Distance Medley Relay (Amber McGown, Irie Searcy, Sara Schaaf, Dana Buchanan), 7th (11:18.89).

Oregon Men’s Pac-10 Championships Team Finishes & Individual Champions (5)

2006-07 – XC – 1st (53), TF – 1st (114); Individual Champions – XC – Galen Rupp; TF – Galen Rupp (5,000m / 10,000m), Tommy Skipper (Pole Vault), Ryan Brandel (Javelin), Brian Richotte (Hammer)

2005-06 – XC – 6th (131), TF – 2nd (133 1/2); Individual Champions – Matt Scherer (400m), Eric Mitchum (110m Hurdles), 4x100m Relay (Del Rincon, Scherer, Jones, Kent), Tommy Skipper (Pole Vault)

Oregon Women’s Pac-10 Championships Team Finishes & Individual Champions (2)

2006-07 – XC – 4th (103), TF – 7th (61); Individual Champions - Britney Henry (Hammer), Rachel Yurkovich (Javelin)

2005-06 – XC – 3rd (86), TF – 5th (97); Individual Champions - Rebekah Noble (800m), Rachel Yurkovich (Javelin)

Lananna’s Stanford Success

4 NCAA Men’s Team Titles

Cross Country - 1996, '97, 2002

Track and Field - 2000

1 NCAA Women’s Team Title

Cross Country - 1996

8 Pac-10 Men’s Team Titles

Cross Country - 1996, '97, '98, 2000, '01, '02; Track and Field - 2001, '02

9 Pac-10 Women’s Team Titles

Cross Country - 1993, '94, '96, '97, '98, '99, 2000, '01, '02

Stanford Individual Success

Olympians

Brad Hauser, 5,000 (2000)

Gabe Jennings, 1,500 (2000)

Grant Robison, 1,500 (2004)

Michael Stember, 1,500 (2000)

World Championships Qualifiers

Dave Scudamore, Marathon (1997)

Lauren Fleshman, 5,000 (2003, ’05)

Brad Hauser, 10,000 (1999)

Stanford Men’s NCAA Individual Champions

(9 Outdoor / 5 Indoor)

Brad Hauser (5 – 3 Outdoor / 2 Indoor)

5,000 – Indoors – 1998 (13:58.50), 1999 (13:52.79); Outdoors – 2000 (13:48.80)

10,000 – 1998 (28:31.30), 2000 (30:38.57)

Gabe Jennings (2 – 1 indoor / 1 outdoor)

1,500 – 2000 (3:37.76)

Mile – Indoors – 2000 (3:59.46)

Nathan Nutter (1)

10,000 – 1999 (29:11.96)

Jonathon Riley (1)

5,000 – 2001 (13:42.51)

Grant Robison (1)

1,500 – 2003 (3:40.39)

Donald Sage (1)

1,500 – 2002 (3:42.65)

Toby Stevenson (1)

Pole Vault – 1998 (18-2 1/2)

Distance Medley Relay (2 indoor)

Indoors - 2000 (9:28.83), 2001 (9:30.01)

Stanford Women’s NCAA Individual Champions

(6 Outdoors, 2 Indoors)

Monal Chokshi (1)

1,500 – 1998 (9:20.18)

Alicia Craig (1)

10,000 – 2003 (32:40.03)

Lauren Fleshman (4 – 3 outdoors, 1 indoors)

3,000 – Indoors 2002 (9:07.45)

5,000 – 2001 (15:52.21), 2002 (15:53.91), 2003 (15:24.06)

Tracye Lawyer (1)

Heptathlon – 1999 (5,855)

Distance Medley Relay (1)

2000

Stanford Men’s Pac-10 Team Wins (6 XC, 2 TF)

1996-97 – XC - 1st (29)

1997-98 – XC – 1st (33)

1998-99 – XC – 1st (48)

2000-01 – XC – 1st (21), TF – 1st (142)

2001-02 – XC – 1st (28), TF – 1st (151)

2002-03 – XC – 1st (19)

Stanford Men’s Pac-10 Championships Team Finishes

1992-93 – XC – 4th (93), TF – 8th (26);

1993-94 – XC – 5th (96), TF – 5th (51 1/2); Indiv Champs – Travis Clark (Decathlon)

1994-95 – XC – 5th (103), TF – 7th (58)

1995-96 – XC – 2nd (58), TF – 6th-t (80 1/2)

1996-97 – XC - 1st (29), TF – 7th (86); Indiv Champs – Jimmi Johnson (200), Rob Reeder (10,000)

1997-98 – XC – 1st (33), TF – 7th (71)

1998-99 – XC – 1st (48), TF – 3rd (105 1/2); Indiv Champs – Nathan Nutter (10,000), Michael Ponikvar (High Jump)

1999-2000 – XC – 2nd (63), TF – 2nd (122 1/2); Indiv Champs – Gabe Jennings (1,500), Brad Hauser (5,000), Brent Hauser (10,000), Toby Stevenson (Pole Vault)

2000-01 – XC – 1st (21), TF – 1st (142); Indiv Champs – Jonathon Riley (XC); 800 (Michael Stember), 1,500 (Gabe Jennings), Steeple (Jesse Thomas), High Jump (Michael Ponikvar)

2001-02 – XC – 1st (28), TF – 1st (151); Indiv Champs – Grant Robison (XC); 1,500 (Gabe Jennings), Jonathon Riley (5,000; 10,000), Long Jump (Milton Little)

2002-03 – XC – 1st (19), TF – 2nd (130); Indiv Champs – Grant Robison (XC); 800 (Justin Romaniuik), 1,500 (Grant Robison), Steeple (Ian Dobson), Louie Luchini (5,000; 10,000)

Stanford Pac-10 Championships Men’s Individual Titles (3 XC, 22 TF)

Cross Country – 2000 (Jonathon Riley), ’01 (Grant Robison), ’02 (Robison)

200 – 1997 (Jimmi Johnson)

800 – 2001 (Michael Stember), ’03 (Justin Romaniuik)

1,500 – 2000 (Gabe Jennings), ’01 (Jennings), ’02 (Jennings), ’03 (Grant Robison)

Steeple – 2001 (Jesse Thomas), ’03 (Ian Dobson)

5,000 – 2000 (Jonathon Riley), ’02 (Riley), ’03 (Louie Luchini)

10,000 – 1997 (Rob Reeder), ’99 (Nathan Nutter), ’00 (Brent Hauser), ’02 (Jonathon Riley), ’03 (Louie Luchini)

High Jump – 1999 (Michael Ponikvar), 2001 (Ponikvar)

Pole Vault – 2000 (Toby Stevenson)

Long Jump – 2002 (Milton Little)

Decathlon – 1994 (Travis Clark)

Stanford Women’s Pac-10 Championship Cross Country Team Titles

1993-94 – XC – 1st (55)

1994-95 – XC - 1st (57)

1996-97 – XC – 1st (38)

1997-98 – XC – 1st (38)

1998-99 – XC – 1st (53)

1999-2000 – XC – 1st (32)

2000-01 – XC - 1st (51)

2001-02 – XC – 1st (27)

2002-03 – XC – 1st (23)

Stanford Pac-10 Championships Women’s Individual Titles (3XC, 17 TF)

1993-94 – Louise Watson (10,000), Jenny McCormick (Javelin)

1994-95 – Monal Chokshi (3,000)

1996-97 – Sarna Renfro (10,000), Tracye Lawyer (Heptathlon)

1997-98 – Monal Chokshi (3,000), Melissa Feinstein (Pole Vault), Tracye Lawyer (Heptathlon)

1998-99 – Tracye Lawyer (Heptathlon)

1999-2000 – Erin Sullivan (XC), Sally Glynn (3,000)

2000-01 – Sally Glynn (1,500)

2001-02 – Lauren Fleshman (XC, 5,000), Erin Sullivan (10,000), Jillian Camarena (Shot Put)

2002-03 – Sara Bei (XC), Lauren Fleshman (5,000), Alicia Craig (10,000), 4x400

Stanford Women’s Pac-10 Championships Team Finishes

1992-93 – XC – 4th (95), TF - 8th (23)

1993-94 – XC – 1st (55), TF – 7th (42); Indiv Champs – Louise Watson (10,000), Jenny McCormick (Javelin)

1994-95 – XC - 1st (57), TF – 6th (76); Indiv Champs – Monal Chokshi (3,000)

1995-96 – XC – 3rd (61), TF – 5th (69),

1996-97 – XC – 1st (38), TF – 3rd (110); Indiv Champs – Sarna Renfro (10,000), Tracye Lawyer (Heptathlon)

1997-98 – XC – 1st (38), TF – 2nd (136), Indiv Champs – Monal Chokshi (3,000), Melissa Feinstein (Pole Vault), Tracye Lawyer (Heptathlon)

1998-99 – XC – 1st (53), TF – 4th (122 1/2); Indiv Champs – Tracye Lawyer (Heptathlon)

1999-2000 – XC – 1st (32), TF – 3rd (114); Indiv Champs – Erin Sullivan (XC); Sally Glynn (3,000)

2000-01 – XC - 1st (51), TF - 3rd (120 1/2); Indiv Champs – Sally Glynn (1,500)

2001-02 – XC – 1st (27), TF - 2nd (121); Indiv Champs – Lauren Fleshman (XC, 5,000), Erin Sullivan (10,000), Jillian Camarena (Shot Put)

2002-03 – XC – 1st (23), TF - 2nd (140); Indiv Champs – Sara Bei (XC); Lauren Fleshman (5,000), Alicia Craig (10,000), 4x400

Stanford Pac-10 Championships Women’s Individual Titles (3 XC, 17 TF)

Cross Country – 1999, 2001, ‘02

1,500 – 2001

3,000 – 1995, ‘98, 2000

5,000 – 2002, ‘03

10,000 – 1994, ‘97, 2002, ‘03

4x400 – 2003

Pole Vault – 1998

Shot Put – 2002

Javelin – 1994

Heptathlon – 1997, ’98, ‘99

Lananna’s Dartmouth Success

Olympian

Bob Kempainen, Marathon (1992, ’96)

Team Honors

5 NCAA Men’s Top-20 Finishes

Cross Country - 1983, '86, '87, '88, '91

2 NCAA Women’s Top-20 Finishes

Cross Country - 1988, '89

13 Heptagonal Men’s Team Titles

Cross Country - 1984, '85, '86, '87, '88, '89, '90, '91

Track and Field - Indoor 1998, '89, '90, '91; Outdoor 1988

6 Heptagonal Women’s Runner-up Finishes

Cross Country - 1984, '85, '88, '89; Track and Field - Outdoor 1988, '89

Dartmouth NCAA Men's Cross Country Team Finishes

1983 - 19th

1986 - 2nd

1987 - 2nd

1988 - 5th

1991 - 16th

Dartmouth NCAA Women's Cross Country Finishes

1988 - 12th

1989 - 18th

Dartmouth Men’s Heptagonal Cross Country Team Finishes

1980 – 3rd

1981 – 5th

1982 – 2nd

1983 – 4th

1984 – 1st

1985 – 1st

1986 – 1st

1987 – 1st

1988 – 1st

1989 – 1st

1990 – 1st

1991 – 1st

Dartmouth Men’s Heptagonal Track & Team Finishes

1980 - 6th, 21 points

1981 – 6th, 17 1/2 points

1982 – 3rd, 39 1/2 points

1983 – 5th, 57 points

1984 – 3rd, 81 points

1985 – 2nd, 99 points

1986 – 8th, 30 1/2 points

1987 – 7th, 57 1/2 points

1988 – 1st, 149 points

1989 – 2nd, 110 points

1990 – 3rd, 101 points

1991 – 3rd, 94 points

1992 – 3rd, 94 points

Dartmouth Women’s Heptagonal Cross Country Team Finishes

1980 – 3rd

1981 – 5th

1982 – 4t

1983 – 4th

1984 – 2nd

1985 – 2nd

1986 – 3rd

1987 – 3rd

1988 – 2nd

1989 – 2nd

1990 – 6th

1991 – 4th

Dartmouth Women’s Heptagonal Track & Field Team Finishes

1980 – 5th, 56 points

1981 – 7th, 49 points

1982 – 5th, 57 points

1983 – 10th, 10 points

1984 – 7th, 38 points

1985 – 5th, 62 points

1986 – 6th, 62 points

1987 – 4th, 86 points

1988 – 2nd, 104 points

1989 – 2nd, 111 points

1990 – 4th, 71 points

1991 – 6th, 45 points

1992 – 8th, 29 points

Dartmouth All-Americans

1991-92

Dennis Webster '92 4x800m

Michael Hughes '93 4x800m

Jon Fidelak '93 4x800m

Ben Gose '92 4x800m

1990-91

Dennis Webster '92 4x800m

Michael Hughes '93 4x800m

Jon Fidelak '93 4x800m

Ben Gose '92 4x800m

1989-90

Therese Devlin '90 3,000m

Pat Kalaher '91 Hammer

Norm Kennedy '90 4x800m

Dennis Webster '92 4x800m

Mike Brown '90 4x800m

Jeffrey Gillooly '90 4x800m

1988-89

Pam Crandall '89 10,000m

Laurie Isbell '90 10,000m

1987-88

Bob Kempainen '88 10,000m

Dan Ford '89 Weight

1986-87

Michael Donaghu '89 XC

Bob Kempainen '88 XC

Bob Kempainen '88 10,000m

Thomas Paskus '89 XC

1985-86

Bob Kempainen '88 XC

Bob Kempainen '88 5,000m

Frank Powers '86 5,000m

1984-85

Michael Fadil '85 Steeplechase

Bob Kempainen '88 XC

Frank Powers '86 10,000m

Jim Sapienza '85 3,000m

Jim Sapienza '85 10,000m

1983-84

Jim Sapienza '85 XC

Jim Sapienza'85 3,000m

Jim Sapienza '85 5,000m

1982-83

Frank Powers '86 XC

Jim Sapienza '85 Two Miles

1981-82

Gail Koziara '82 Shot Put

Jim Sapienza '85 XC

On the other hand wrote:

Dartmouth All-Americans

1981-82

Gail Koziara '82 Shot Put

Jim Sapienza '85 XC

Wow, coaching a distance runner to All-American status in the shot, that IS good!

Er, Lananna doesn't coach the pole vault or the 200m or the javelin, so why are all those being included under the heading of "A-m-e-r-i-c-a-n D-i-s-t-a-n-c-e"? On that same token, why count XC teams at Oregon that had a Kenyan citizen as a scorer?

America, Fvck Yeah! wrote:

Er, Lananna doesn't coach the pole vault or the 200m or the javelin, so why are all those being included under the heading of "A-m-e-r-i-c-a-n D-i-s-t-a-n-c-e"? On that same token, why count XC teams at Oregon that had a Kenyan citizen as a scorer?

Ooops, I gave you guys too much credit. I thought you could figure out that it was a cut and paste job of his resume, and take it one step further and conclude that those guys wouldn't be counted as distance runners. My bad, I should have spelled that out for ya.

You don't have to count Shadrack for the scorer, and on that token you'd have to say that McDonnel never had a national championship team, and Lanana would still have how many?

i love it when people think that

1) wetmore didn't have talent when he won his XC titles. He hasn't had the talent in droves like Lananna, but Vin never had a FL champion at Stanford. Wetmore had quite a few. by the way, how many track team titles does he have compared to Lananna? Or top 5 NCAA finishes in track?

2) coaching is just coming up with workouts. 90% of coaching these athletes is managing personalities and motivating the athletes, which Vin is one of the best at. It's not a coincidence that many of Vin's guys started performing poorly when Gerrard took over with a very similar training system. No one, including Wetmore, has a magic formula on how to train. everyone would do it if he did.

They are both great college coaches, they are just different.

Lananna has has rosters laden with more talent (or at least runners with more high school accomplishments) at both Stanford and Oregon than Wetmore has EVER had at Colorado. Wetmore's formula is hard to beat, the success of his runners when they leave college is a testament to that and is as good as or better than the record of runners who were coached by Lananna or McDonnell in college.

Hate to break it to you buddy, but Wetmore has the same amount of team championships as Lananna (5) and more Big XII and Mountain Regional championships, I do believe.

Also, 66 All-Americans isn't a bad number for Wetmore.

Oh, and I'm glad that if I were an athlete for Lananna he would tend to my personality needs. But if I want to run fast, I'll be coached by Wetmore.

2) coaching is just coming up with workouts. 90% of coaching these athletes is managing personalities and motivating the athletes, which Vin is one of the best at. It\'s not a coincidence that many of Vin\'s guys started performing poorly when Gerrard took over with a very similar training system. No one, including Wetmore, has a magic formula on how to train. everyone would do it if he did.

They are both great college coaches, they are just different.

You really think Gerard did a poor job? The guy actually got Ryan Hall running really well and peaking at the right time, where as Vin had yet to accomplish that. It seems like he did a pretty good job to me:

Ryan Hall: 2nd at NCAA XC 13:16; NCAA 5k Champ world champ member at 5k

Ian Dobson: School Records at 3k SC, 5k, 10k NCAA 5k indoor Champ 2nd outoors World Champs member at 5k

Louie L. 13:25

Gomez: 3:43+/13:50\'s

Vidal: 8:40\'s (top 10 at USA\'s)

Seth Henjy 13:40\'s

Emme 13:50\'s

That seems pretty good to me, not to mention he had some solid guys by the name of Matt Lane, Moran, and Graham when he was at W&M if I\'m not mistaken. Those guys were good then and have continued to excel.

Hall is a poor example because Vin developed him and Gerard was there when he was strongest. I think a few of the other things you mentioned were already happening when Vin was there. It is natural that these guys who had 2-4 years of base, experience and leadership under Vin and his teams would be getting faster their remaining years after Vin left as long as Gerard wasn't an absolute disaster. But once Vin's projects were out of the system you have a clearer view of the difference.

Regarding Wetmore's resume, while it is good, I wonder how many guys he has had place top 20 at NCAA cross? I would have to guess Vins list is much longer. Had Vin not gone to Oberlin not only would he have another couple national champion teams on his resume, but also a lot of top 20 guys.

Dartmouth All-Americans

1991-92

Dennis Webster '92 4x800m

Michael Hughes '93 4x800m

Jon Fidelak '93 4x800m

Ben Gose '92 4x800m

1990-91

Dennis Webster '92 4x800m

Michael Hughes '93 4x800m

Jon Fidelak '93 4x800m

Ben Gose '92 4x800m

1989-90

Therese Devlin '90 3,000m

Pat Kalaher '91 Hammer

Norm Kennedy '90 4x800m

Dennis Webster '92 4x800m

Mike Brown '90 4x800m

Jeffrey Gillooly '90 4x800m

Isn't this the guy who clubbed Nancy Kerrigan???

So basically, we can agree that Lananna's quote shows his ineptitude: he admits he can't win NCAAs running from the back, and we know that it has been done by other coaches in the past. Thus, Lananna cannot do what other coaches can do.

Lananna = Overrated.[quote]Butler Fan wrote:

who are you people? he won...the whole thing. so has Wetmore- who the hell can find fault with that? The best runners get bashed on here- the best coaches....seriously- there are so many doooooouches on here.

True. And the steady resurgence that we are seeing among the Americans since the 90's was directly triggered by Stanford and Colorado BOTH shunning the mercenary model in favor of developing domestic talent. Then Wisconsin responded in kind so now we have a nice arms-race to see who the best American program is. The future of American distance can only benefit. We should be blasting the coaches and programs that make no effort to recruit and develop domestic talent.

[quote]Bordentown wrote:

who are you people? he won...the whole thing. so has Wetmore- who the hell can find fault with that? quote]

as vin left he told gerald to let him coach the seniors, the guys HE recruited and worked on. He gave him their packets for cross and if gerald tried to change them, hall would rebuff him and say "thats not in my packet." vin handed him an NCAA championship with tenforde,dobson,hall,sage,luchini, robison. vin loves telling this story and how gerald is a shitty recruiter. why do you think luchini moved to oregon to be a tutor at UofO as a nike athlete? vin, of course.

On the other hand wrote:

Regarding Wetmore's resume, while it is good, I wonder how many guys he has had place top 20 at NCAA cross? I would have to guess Vins list is much longer. Had Vin not gone to Oberlin not only would he have another couple national champion teams on his resume, but also a lot of top 20 guys.

And how many top 20 FL recruits has Wetmore had compared with Lananna? That ratio is certainly lower than Wetmore's top 20 placings at NCAA xc to Lananna's.

Also, if Wetmore had left his position as coach at Seton Hall sooner (or had bypassed it completely) then he would have another couple national champion teams on his resume as well as a lot of top 20 guys. (To wit: it's pointless (to the point of inanity) to speculate on what Wetmore or Lananna could have accomplished if either had taken a different path from what he actually did.)

BOTH Vin and Mark wrote:

True. And the steady resurgence that we are seeing among the Americans since the 90's was directly triggered by Stanford and Colorado BOTH shunning the mercenary model in favor of developing domestic talent. Then Wisconsin responded in kind so now we have a nice arms-race to see who the best American program is. The future of American distance can only benefit. We should be blasting the coaches and programs that make no effort to recruit and develop domestic talent.

Um, not necessarily.