please dont squeeze the garmin wrote:
General principle: anything that requires extra days of recovery better be doing you more good than whatever you're sacrificing because of it.
Precisely! Optimal Stress + Optimal rest = Optimal Progress and all that. Scarifice those 40min jogs? :) What's so terrible about longer periods of recovery between runs? Quality of recovery! Not quantity!! :)
I always get my arse kicked for using this hyperthetical scenario, so kick away:
60 mile week:
12 x 5 mile (2 a day, one day off)
or
6 x 10 mile (1 a day, 1 day off)
or
3 x 20 mile (1-2 days off in between).
For middle distance? For Marathon?
Yes, I KNOW we can do a mixture of things, but let's discuss what those 60 miles can be, or what they cannot be...
Another great thing about 12-14 per week for sprinters: Sure is a shock to do heat, quarter, semi and final all within 48hrs, if training is not geared for such a schedule. Eh? How come we've seen some WRs on the 4th run? Sprinters??
skuj it might be of interest to you in alberto salazars book he talks about a masters runner who has many age records who lives in oregon john keston who runs every 3rd day 15-17 miles each with some speed in all runs, when he is preparing for the marathon he ups his runs to 20 miles on his running days. frank horwill mentions runners over 40 could experiment with every other day training, but make sure to hit the 5 paces, for a marathon 30k at marathon pace, for someone like geb that would be 6 x 5k with a quarter rest in 1440-1445, a 10k pace workout would be 3x2 miles in about 822, a 5k workout would be 4x 1mile in 404 and a 3k workout would be 8 x800 in 2 minutes even, with warmup and cooldown make it 52-78 miles a week, i dont know who actually does these workouts without the easy day which help to speed recovery, but anyone who could do these workouts would be a major force from 3k to the marathon.
Jack Campbell. Discuss. (Thank you for this info, Douglas.)
douglas burke wrote:
skuj it might be of interest to you in alberto salazars book he talks about a masters runner who has many age records who lives in oregon john keston who runs every 3rd day 15-17 miles each with some speed in all runs, when he is preparing for the marathon he ups his runs to 20 miles on his running days. frank horwill mentions runners over 40 could experiment with every other day training, but make sure to hit the 5 paces, for a marathon 30k at marathon pace, for someone like geb that would be 6 x 5k with a quarter rest in 1440-1445, a 10k pace workout would be 3x2 miles in about 822, a 5k workout would be 4x 1mile in 404 and a 3k workout would be 8 x800 in 2 minutes even, with warmup and cooldown make it 52-78 miles a week, i dont know who actually does these workouts without the easy day which help to speed recovery, but anyone who could do these workouts would be a major force from 3k to the marathon.
What those 60 miles are is insufficient for almost anyone wanting to get to their full potential in the marathon.
Skuj wrote: Scarifice those 40min jogs? :) What's so terrible about longer periods of recovery between runs? Quality of recovery! Not quantity!!
Man, those little runs are the best bang for the buck in my week!
The way it works out for me, the 35-40 minute morning or evening jog truly seems like bonus mileage with no expense beyond time and laundry cycles. Some say "recovery run"; indeed, getting the blood flowing seems to offset whatever bit of additional fatigue the jog contributes, such that a day with 90+40 is equally tough as a day with just a 90.
It's a beautiful thing: an additional 25-30 MPW practically free. And the additional volume helps. No pain, definite gain.
The frequency itself seems to help me too even if mileage is lower. Whether it's about revving up the metabolism more frequently and/or keeping the legs looser without the 23 hours to tighten up between runs, doubles just put me in a much better groove.
You've run twice a day a lot more than me, Skuj. Was your experience radically different?
HRE wrote:
What those 60 miles are is insufficient for almost anyone wanting to get to their full potential in the marathon.
HYPOTHETICAL, for illustrative purposes. Not a practical program for Geb or me or you. Please re-read my preamble.
The 60 miles is the important thing, probably with a 15-20 mile run included and some faster running. Otherwise it's a matter of individual preference.
zoneman wrote:
I think there are some out there that would agree with your statement, Tinman possibly being one of them. He believes many marathoners would fare better cutting back from the mega mileage 140+ and focus on getting in 2 Big Workouts a week. 2 to 3 hour single runs with quality. Lower mileage on your easy days...
Yeah, if only he had coached a few world class marathoners, we would probably have had a sub-2.00 WR right now...