They will not let you set up your own bottles, even if you provide the tables, bottles, set up, and volunteers, take down etc. They are completely shutting down the park, and they are claiming security, logistics, and the twisty nature of the course as their reason not to allow this to take place. This is insane.
I love the idea of the t-shirts! The USATF has been trying to do away with the B standard for the marathon for some time. They don't get it that you can fit 500-1000 guys in a marathon easily. They don't get that New Yorkers don't care about the trials and more about the "REAL" New York marathon the next day.
My PR time of 2:22:07 many years ago didn't get me in so its probably just me being bitter though...
Wejo...is there any way to petition to the race directors? What if you "sponsored" the B qualifier tables like you metioned? I will be there and I would volunteer to set up those tables if they said they would let us work them, hell I would even help you pay for the damn tables as I have friends who are B qualifiers.
If they can't get bottles on the tables is there any rule saying we can't hand out bottles from the side of the road? If they don't let us set up a table "on" the course possibly we could have stations on the "outside" of the course where we could hand out bottles to those who want them.
Thoughts?
The important thing to note here is that up until recently, most of the athletes were not aware that there would be this difference for B qualifiers. This is different than it was in '04. someone who was a legitimate contender for the team might make a decision not to run a marathon in the spring and get in with a track time, thinking that this is the smartest approach. They made that decision not knowing that they would not be able to have their own bottles at the trials.
not having bottles for some of these guys IS a very big deal. The good people at NYRR should not let this go down this way. it would be a travesty, a sham, and a mockery.
I think having/not having personal bottles can make a big difference on an individual level, but is NOT linked to speed of the runner.
Some A qualifiers would do just fine with only water cups, as would some B qualifiers.
Some A qualifiers would have big troubles without their personal bottles, as would some B qualifiers.
Treating these two differently in a National Championship race makes no sense.
If they allowed no personal bottles at all I imagine that there would be many complaints lodged from A qualifiers, but at least it would be fair and justifiable.
I just hope that enough B qualifiers have the gumption to lodge complaints against this rule.
Thanks Wejo, for bringing attention to this.
Instead of complaining here, maybe Wejo should mobilize some of the B qualifiers and pitch one of the New York Times journalists to cover this story. If they can write about how measuring the course is handled, I'm sure this story will resonate too....
sucka.... wrote:
The additional truth is... many of these "B" standard athletes are track qualifiers, meaning that they are legit athletes who have legit shots at making the team.
Actually, there are exactly 2 track qualifiers on the current list (James Carney and Dan Browne) of who have actually entered the race. There are also a couple people who entry has been denyed. A 2:30:50 is not a sub 2:22. At least the other one was at least close.
All previous mens and wonens Trials races I have seen (both in Buffalo, Jersey City, Pittsburgh, Columbus, and Columbia) they have allowed special bottles for all runners.
"newatcher", there is a rule --
>>RULE 66 ASSISTANCE TO ATHLETES 1. Except as provided in
>>road races (Rule 132) and in long distance walking
>>events Rule 150), during the progress of an event a
>>competitor who has received any assistance whatsoever
>>from any other person may be disqualified by the
>>Referee. "Assistance" is the conveying of advice,
>>information or direct help to an athlete by any means,
[...]
Rule 132 indicates that race management should provide water for medical reasons
So if you're gonna give them drinks, you have to be a part of race management.
Speaking of Rules I got this email from someone else. Does anyon have a link to a relevant rule? I think we've got enough people to easily help put up the tables.
Great post and thanks for bringing this to the public. Frankly, the NYRR is violating USATF and IAAF rules if they refuse to allow all OT qualifiers to use personal aid. This is not a public/open event, it is a Championship, therefore all rules must be followed to the letter. They cannot refuse certain athletes basic services and give the same to others. Any official, master level or above, should know this. Jim Estes & Craig Masback should not allow to to happen. To do this make the event fail to comply with its sanction, which violates all of the results. Races may decide to allow for athlete refreshments, or provide them. There is nothing in the rules that allows for separate classes to be provided for in Championship competition.
If you need any help in busting nuts at USATF on this one, let me know.
i will be there to support my training partner who is a b qual, but who is ready to rock a 2:15-16, as you will see in his half in philly this weekend. anyway, i am willing to offer my help to even the field and pass out bottles. in my one previous marathon, i had my family spread out to give me bottles and it was great not to have to struggle with the damn cups. not to mention it is prolly gonna be cold in nyc and it sucks to have cold wet gloves...to all the people that say it is water, bfd, i say that it is about fairness not water/-ade...if it was just water, who cares, but we are talking about simple principles of fair play, which are a sacred part of sport.
I'm running the regular race the next day. I don't see how or why people pay that much for a hotel room for one night. Everyone has to bus, shuttle, ferry it to the start anyway. I'm staying at the LaGuardia Marriot, $338 for two nights total. I'd rather be closer to my airport than the start/finish line.
Alan
Quit your whining. If you've only hit the "B" qualifier you're not going to be a factor in the real race. Yes, I said the "REAL RACE". Outside of the top 3 nobody cares where you finish. If you hit the "B" qualifier enjoy the ride. Run the race. Be thankful you are even allowed to run the event. Man up. You're not as good as you are giving yourself credit for.
PS I've got the "B" qualifier. I know what I'm capable of...and it's not a top 3 finish. See you in NYC.
Runningart2004 wrote:
I'm running the regular race the next day. I don't see how or why people pay that much for a hotel room for one night. Everyone has to bus, shuttle, ferry it to the start anyway. I'm staying at the LaGuardia Marriot, $338 for two nights total. I'd rather be closer to my airport than the start/finish line.
Alan
For the Trials I am sure the buses/shuttles as well as the hospitality suite are all located at the race hotel.
Man Up wrote:
If you've only hit the "B" qualifier you're not going to be a factor in the real race. Yes, I said the "REAL RACE".
Brian Sell and Trent Briney were in '04.
Actually the race is with atleast the top ten...prize money. There is even team prize money so it goes even further than top ten. Also, a high placing (top third) gets you many other things.
Man Up wrote:
Quit your whining. If you've only hit the "B" qualifier you're not going to be a factor in the real race. Yes, I said the "REAL RACE". Outside of the top 3 nobody cares where you finish. If you hit the "B" qualifier enjoy the ride. Run the race. Be thankful you are even allowed to run the event. Man up. You're not as good as you are giving yourself credit for.
PS I've got the "B" qualifier. I know what I'm capable of...and it's not a top 3 finish. See you in NYC.
I love it when people come on here talking all tough. Does it make you feel better about yourself? You say you've got the "B" standard, but somehow I'm not buying it. You see, I can say "I hold the American Record in the 10k," but it doesn't mean it's true. Most of the "B" qualifiers know where they stand, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve water bottles on the course like they've had in the past. We're not talking about a difference of 1,000 or even 500 bottles. If the NYRR are half as good as they want everyone to believe and if they want anyone to even begin to think they're all about the athletes, they need to do the right thing on this one.
bump
Hollywood nights wrote:
They will not let you set up your own bottles, even if you provide the tables, bottles, set up, and volunteers, take down etc. They are completely shutting down the park, and they are claiming security, logistics, and the twisty nature of the course as their reason not to allow this to take place. This is insane.
If the park is completely shut down then put the tables in the middle of the road. Bottles on each side. Problem solved.
I'm going to email the NYRR and say we'll provide the manpower for the tables. I've gotten a few emails from people saying they would help, in addition to the people on here.
wejo-thanks!
I hate to say this but the NYRR does have it's "favorites" regardless. Do you think Mary and CO. will not provide Fam with drink bottles? I know some high level B's will get special treatment over the lesser known B's. Just my opinion mind you.