Alan Webb is now the 25th fastest 1500 runner ever!!!!

Chicano wrote:

I am old.

92 Oly champ. Outkicked the WORLD to include Morceli.

Thanks, Chicano (and Jim Spivey!). Yes, I was fully aware of Cacho's victory in 1992. I had the race on tape (ah, the late, lamented TripleCast) and showed it to my students many, many times.

My response was to the person who (I thought--could have been wrong) wanted to inject a racial element into the question. No, Cacho was not North African, just a plain old fast Spaniard. (My memory of "red hair" must have been the result of lousy color on my TV, or maybe Cacho's red singlet. I'll bow to Jim's experience--he was a lot closer to Cacho than I'll ever be!)

Cacho was a brilliant and perplexingly underrated runner, IMO.

You copy and paste this into every webb/lagat thread don't you

I don't recall saying it would be easier -- that would be your own interpretations. I merely made the point that at his level of competition, he's not separated by much from the all-time greats.

Now, can he drop 2 more seconds? Yes, he can. I didn't say it would happen this season, but it very well might. Uh, Dick Face.

Jingoism and racism are completely different things. I was never that wild about anything Colleen Dereuck did either.... or Arturo Barrios. You can call me a jingo; that is fine. However, the people calling this racism are the true racists as they seem to be the only ones to whom it makes a difference what skin color someone is. I can guarantee you far more American youth have been inspired by Webb than Lagat. This may piss you off, but it's the truth.

Phil Connors wrote:

Jingoism and racism are completely different things. I was never that wild about anything Colleen Dereuck did either.... or Arturo Barrios. You can call me a jingo; that is fine. However, the people calling this racism are the true racists as they seem to be the only ones to whom it makes a difference what skin color someone is. I can guarantee you far more American youth have been inspired by Webb than Lagat. This may piss you off, but it's the truth.

how can you guarantee that?

dwigt schrude wrote:

Phil Connors wrote:

Jingoism and racism are completely different things. I was never that wild about anything Colleen Dereuck did either.... or Arturo Barrios. You can call me a jingo; that is fine. However, the people calling this racism are the true racists as they seem to be the only ones to whom it makes a difference what skin color someone is. I can guarantee you far more American youth have been inspired by Webb than Lagat. This may piss you off, but it's the truth.

how can you guarantee that?

Look at the board--look at the front page. People here are going nuts about Webb. There are probably 30 threads. THAT's the evidence of how inspirational he is.

Jim Spivey wrote:

Stretching to go for a run myself, visiting my wife's parents in Indianapolis. Think I will throw in a surge about the 12 minute mark on the run!

[snip]

js

Great insight. Can I con you into an extended version of the insight for the Ag Rag? Next issue's in prep now. ;-)

Great seeing you at nats in San Fran. I threw in a surge at 12 minutes this morning also, but unfortunately no one noticed.

Stoneman

800 dude wrote:

dwigt schrude wrote:

how can you guarantee that?

Look at the board--look at the front page. People here are going nuts about Webb. There are probably 30 threads. THAT's the evidence of how inspirational he is.

some of that is due to shock, its not all because of inspiration

if webb inspires more than lagat it is only because this country is covertly racist, not because his performances are better. and how the fizz do argue that people calling attention to racism are racist. that is unbelievable!

toro wrote:Webb is inspiring a new generation of American youth in a way that Lagat cannot.

I am proud to say that I am the father of an American youth who has shown the capacity to be inspired by naturalized citizens and American-born citizens alike; by black men as easily as by white men.

What I find most inspiring about Jim Spivey, by the way, is that this American sports hero obviously feels the same way about his son. Great reading, JS. Thanks for taking the time!

Phil Connors wrote:

Jingoism and racism are completely different things. I was never that wild about anything Colleen Dereuck did either.... or Arturo Barrios. You can call me a jingo; that is fine. However, the people calling this racism are the true racists as they seem to be the only ones to whom it makes a difference what skin color someone is. I can guarantee you far more American youth have been inspired by Webb than Lagat. This may piss you off, but it's the truth.

The fact that more white americans are inspired by a white american running fast than an african-born runner is the truth. I don't dispute that. Many white Americans were inspired by Ryan Hall running several minutes below the american record and also classified his time as best american-born record. The fact that you wish to dilute the true american record because you are inspired by the guy does not make it right. Making seperate designations for people of different backgrounds for the sake of your inspiration is undoubtedly racist. An American is an American, end of story....there is no more american or less american. Many naturalized citizens sacrificed more to be american than those born here.

By your designation, In a nation of immigrants, Billy Mills (of 1/2 native american origin), should have the American record for the 10,000 M.

Making native born designations is racist. I agree with Zipparo, we live in a country of such covert racism, that you can't even recognize your own racism. This may piss you off, We all have some racism, that is the truth..

way to point out the color lines to your kids..

On determining nationality...

Mottram has a scottish mum and an english dad, he lives in Britain a pretty high proportion of the year. He also travels (apparently not 100% sure) on a British passport.

As far as I can see, he's pretty much British, yet he runs for Australia...

seriously. America is not a racist country. There are some racists here, but I, personally, find Webb more inspiring to me than Lagat becasue I can relate to him. He was born here, raised here, competed here his whole career. Lagat, a great guy, a great runner, a great asset to the US running community, but I can't relate to him as much as I can with Webb. It isn't because he is black, its because I don't share as much in common with him as I do with Webb.

And I can guarantee that I'm not the only one that feels that way. If you think America is racist just becaseu we like to root for a white guy who grew up here, get a f***ing clue. Ever watch football/basketball/baseball? LT, Kobe, TO, Shaq, ARod, probably 85% of the rest of the rosters aren't home grown white guys, but we still love watching them. American is no more or less racist than any other Western country, and I would challenge you to prove me wrong, but I'm just not going to bother with this anymore.

Coleman wrote:

Who is Sydney Maree????

Sydney Maree (b. 1956) is a former middle distance runner who competed at the international level in the 1980s. He was born in South Africa, in the dusty mining town of Cullinan, east of Pretoria, but later became a U.S. citizen, running for the United States in the 5000 meters at the 1987 IAAF World Championships in Athletics (11th place) and 1988 Olympic Games (where he finished in fifth place in the final). He attended Villanova University where he was NCAA All American in cross country, two time NCAA champion in the 1500 meters (1980 & 1981) and once in the 5000 meters (1979).

Maree's greatest success came in August 1983 when he broke Steve Ovett's world record over 1500 m at a meeting in Cologne. Maree clocked 3:31.24 min. Two years later, Maree broke the 3:30 min-barrier when he set a new US record of 3:29.77 min. However, this was not a world record as a few weeks before Steve Cram and Said Aouita had already run 3:29.67 and 3:29.71 min respectively. Maree was an excellent 5000 m runner, too. In Oslo in 1985 he set a new US record at 13:01.15 min. finishing just behind Aouita who set a world record.

Maree's personal bests include the aforementioned 3:29.77 for the 1500 meters (1985, the American Record for 21 years until 2006), 3:48.83 for the mile (1981), 4:54.20 in the 2000 meters (1985, an American Record at the time), 7:33.37 for 3000 meters (1984, also an AR at the time), and the previously mentioned AR of 13:01.15 in the 5000 meters.

Maree is married with five children. In 1995 he moved back to South Africa, later forming the asset management group Franklin Zamani, in Johannesburg, of which he became the CEO

I think it has to do with the fact that many of us just relate better to an "American" runner if he grew up the same way we did. I consider someone an American, regardless of skin color, if they grew up in the USA. So I guess from 4 years old or so. You know, if they ate Cheerios like us, watched Gilligna's Island like us, etc.

Nationalism is not racism. You need to check your definitions. In regards to Mills, being born in the states and having ancestors born here over 500 years ago are significantly different things. Your logic is terrible. It would be awesome if Terrance Herrington, Shannon Lemora, Dave Krummenacker and even David Mack had run 3:30. They didn't. It was cooler when Earl Jones, John MArshall, James Robinson and the other guy (always forget who it was) ran 1:43 than when Coe ran 1:41. It's not about race; it's about nationality. Just like I care more about how the local high school basketball team does than the vast majority of the pro teams. And if some minor league ABA team comes to my town, I won't care about those guys and pretend like they're my kindred spirits. Run with well over 100 high school kids in the next year - I have in the last year - and find out who is more inspirational.

Sydney also represented the United States, in the 1983 World Championships in Helsinki, for the 1500 meter run with Steve Scott and Tom Byers. He did not make the final.

In 1984, he finished 3rd in the US Olympic Trials, nipping Notre Dame graduate and Athletics West Runner Chuck Aragon. What was difficult at the time, is that he injured his hamstring, and when he announced that he would pull out of the Los Angeles Olympics, it was too late to add another American to the team for 1500 meters. Chuck sat at home. Did Syndey contact the US Team managers early enough for them to put an alternate on the team, or did he wait until the day had passed. You are allowed to have a short list (I think 10 names?) of alternates, and most of these are taken by the 4x100 and 4x400 runners. Chuck was not on the short list. Very dissapointing for him, and also for the US as only Steve and I competed for the USA.

I think, and will need some help with fellow posters, that Syndey's first representation of the US was in 1981 at the World Cup. He became a citizen that year, and raced in the US championships in Sacramento, California.

js

me me wrote:

I think it has to do with the fact that many of us just relate better to an "American" runner if he grew up the same way we did. I consider someone an American, regardless of skin color, if they grew up in the USA. So I guess from 4 years old or so. You know, if they ate Cheerios like us, watched Gilligna's Island like us, etc.

So you have to "grow up" in in the USA? So let's forget about all the legal immigrants that came to this country? Maree and the marathoner (I forgot his name) came to the US from South Africa, which was being torn apart by an unjust system of government. Meb's and Abdi's parents fled tense national situations in their homelands in Africa and brought their families to the US for a better life.

Go back a few generations in your family lineage. I would guess that your ancestors came here for something better.

One of the things that many of us share is the desire of our forebearers to seek a better existence for themselves and their descendents.