If I'm not mistaken, hadn't the 1870's wasn't the 14th amendment already been adopted? Thus, making "slaves" citizens equal to whites? That whole civil war thing took place in the previous decade.
If I'm not mistaken, hadn't the 1870's wasn't the 14th amendment already been adopted? Thus, making "slaves" citizens equal to whites? That whole civil war thing took place in the previous decade.
Lel wins close men's race at London Marathon, Zhou wins women's title
The Associated PressPublished: April 22, 2007
LONDON: Martin Lel won the men's race at the London Marathon on Sunday, outsprinting three others to the finish, and Zhou Chunxiu became the first Chinese winner by taking the women's title.
Lel, who also won the London race in 2005, finished in 2 hours, 7 minutes, 41 seconds.
Abderrahim Goumri of Morocco finished second in his marathon debut in 2:07:44, and last year's champion Felix Limo was third in 2:07:47. Lel lost to Limo in a sprint finish last year.
"It was one of the most tactical races I have run," Lel said. "There were several champions running so I am proud. I corrected the mistakes from last year and I had to be careful to preserve my energy, but it was an interesting race."
Haile Gebrselassie, one of the greatest distance runners of all time, withdrew after about 30 kilometers (19 miles).
of the race also included world record holder Paul Tergat, former winner Khalid Khannouchi, Olympic gold medalist Stefano Baldini and two-time world champion Jaouad Gharib.
The 27th edition of the London Marathon was run under sunny skies, with temperatures reaching 20.5 degrees Celsius (68.9 degrees Fahrenheit) by the end of the elite races.
Ryan Hall, an American making his marathon debut, joined up with the leaders and was the first man past the 35-kilometer (21.75-mile) mark, along with Gharib, Lel, Hendrick Ramaala, Tergat, Marilson Gomes dos Santos, Limo and Goumri.
But he fell back soon after and it was down to a four-man sprint finish.
Gebrselassie had pulled out holding his chest and leaning over the barrier.
"I had a stitch here," Gebrselassie said. "I could not continue. I don't know why. I'm not injured. I cannot breathe. I didn't know what was going wrong. It's not the heat. Maybe something I eat wrong."
Gebrselassie, who won the Berlin Marathon last year, finished ninth in London last year and third in his marathon debut in 2002.
Hall finished seventh in 2:08:24 for the fastest time by an American on a marathon debut.
Zhou broke away with about 5 kilometers (3 miles) to go in the women's race, leaving Gete Wami and Lornah Kiplagat behind before sprinting up the final straight on The Mall to win in 2:20:38.
Wami was second in 2:21:45 and Constantina Tomescu-Dita was third in 2:23:55. Salina Kosgei of Kenya was fourth, with Kiplagat finishing in fifth.
"My winning today shows that my training has done great work," Zhou said. "It's always been an ambition of mine to win the London Marathon and I'm very happy. This is a very good opportunity to learn from other world athletes."
Zhou is the first Chinese runner — man or woman — to win one of the World Marathon Majors, which consist of the London, New York, Boston, Chicago and Berlin marathons.
Zhou, Kiplagat, Wami and Berhane Adere were in the main group at the halfway point, completing the first 20 kilometers (12 miles) in 1:06:18.
Tomescu-Dita had dropped back around the 22-kilometer (14-mile) mark and Australian contender Benita Johnson had also run with the main group until 17 kilometers (11 miles).
Adere, last year's Chicago Marathon champion, was the next runner to fall off the pace, dropping back shortly after 25 kilometers (15.5 miles), leaving Kiplagat leading Zhou and Wami up front.
The three ran together until Zhou's breakaway.
Zhou plans to run the marathon at the world championships on Sept. 2 in Osaka, Japan, and at the Olympics in Beijing next year.
This was the 28-year-old Zhou's third marathon outside Asia. She finished fifth at the 2005 world championships in Helsinki, Finland, and 33rd at the 2004 Olympics. Last year, Zhou won the marathon at the Asian Games.
The previous best finish for a Chinese woman at the London Marathon was Zhao Youfeng's fourth in 1990. The best men's finish was Cai Shangyan, who finished eighth in 1988.
There was no change in the World Marathon Majors standings.
Robert Cheruiyot of Kenya, who won in Boston last week, leads the men's standings with 75 points, followed by Lel with 40. Jelena Prokopcuka, who won last year's New York City marathon, leads the women's standings with 55 points, 15 more than Wami.
The men's and women's first prize, each worth US$500,000 (€367,480), will be awarded after the New York race in November.
East African Dominance wrote:
It is only important because we have been told for the last 20 years that East Africans have a "genetic advantage" when it comes to marathoning. When a person that is not from East African decent is knocking heads with the East Africans it gives all of us hope. Khalid and Abdi and Meb ARE DEFINITLY AMERICANS. However, they don't help us in proving that we can compete with people of East African decent.
Firstly I will say: fantastic run by Hall! He showed that his 1/2 marathon was no sort of fluke at all, and he will likely have many more great races to come.
As regards your above comment, since it was directed to people like me, NO ONE ever said that a non-East/North African here or there might not compete with the best in the world. It's alread happened. We've seen Mottram & Baldini do it, and a few others. What people say is: East Africans(and North Africans to some extent) are so incredibly dominant vs the entire rest of the world put together (when their total population is a very small fraction of the world's population), that it would appear that they have a higer % of naturally born superstars. Ryan Hall doesn't change that equation. There will ALWAYS be one or two or three non-East/North African superstars(some years more, some less). And the East/North Africans did pretty well today, too, huh?
And I am not sure why Ryan Hall, a genetic freak of astronomical proportions himself, gives a regular guy, white or black, "hope." You're not gonna get any faster because he did. Of course I am inspired by fast times by anyone. Geb inspires me, but I won't run slower or faster because he dropped out today. It's great to see great performances. And Ryan Hall running 2:06 or 2:14 won't make me faster or slower, and he will likely do little to change the overall ratio of ultra-great East Africans to ultra-great non-East Africans that have existed over the last 20 years or will likely exist in the next 20.
East African Dominance wrote:
It is only important because we have been told for the last 20 years that East Africans have a "genetic advantage" when it comes to marathoning. When a person that is not from East African decent is knocking heads with the East Africans it gives all of us hope. Khalid and Abdi and Meb ARE DEFINITLY AMERICANS. However, they don't help us in proving that we can compete with people of East African decent.
This is the correct analysis. What we have here is an issue of non-East African Letsrunners who want to believe that they (or their kids) are not (or will not be) at a genetic disadvantage when they step out onto a track against people of East African descent.
By this token, the issue is NOT that Hall is American-born, but rather that he is not of East African descent. Eventually, we will have champion American-born runners of East African descent (Meb, Abdi, or Khannouchi's kids, perhaps?) but I think we will see people having the same issue with their performances because they have the same "good genes" as the Kenyans and Ethiopians.
I don't think this is a bad or even racist thing per se: it's nice for white people to be able to look to Mottram and Hall and realize that their race doesn't not put them at a major disadvantage in distance running (also perhaps true for white sprinters and Jeremy Wariner).
That said, it is very bad when it makes us slight the accomplishments (or the "American-ness") of great American athletes who happen to be of East African descent. And this gets donne not only to Kenyans like Lagat, but also Americans who came nations that aren't traditional distance running powerhouses (like Meb...Eritrea is on the rise, what with Tadesse, but it's still no Kenya or Ethiopia).
Bottom line: Hall's performance today deserves all the hype and celebration it has generated, but he is no more or less an "American runner" than Meb or any other citizen who has lived here for most or all of his/her life and competes proudly for the USA.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, it look until the mid 20th century for the 14th amendment actually to be see fruition. Something happened in the 1880s, something about the Civil Rights Cases making the equal protection clause non-applicable private entities. Equality, as it was termed, was a sham, a blindfold pulled over the eyes of Americans. Remember "separate yet equal"? But there was the 1964 Civil Rights Act so I am now a contented being.
Ryan Hall FTW at the Marathon trials?
? wrote:
If Meb's parents came here from Eritrea when his mom was pregnant with him and he was born on American soil, would you consider him to be 'an American runner?"
He's already considered an American runner.
Halls debut record was for someone born on US soil. If Meb had been born on US soil and he had run faster in his debut marathon than Hall did today, then he'd have the record. It's very simple.
Anyone turning it into a race argument is either being overly-defensive or has some race issues. It's not even a real record, just something that should be noted.
Spare me wrote:
Seguru wrote:People, Abdirahman ran SLOWER than Ryan Hall, so Abdi's performance is IRRELEVANT.
Ryan Hall is the FASTEST AMERICAN-BORN MARATHONER OF ALL-TIME. And that is a legitimate title, with no racial undertones.
"No racial undertones". What a crock of shit. The fact that you feel the need to mention it in the first place provides all the racial undertones needed. Because (like Abdi's performance) the fact is irrelevant in the first place.
There is nothing wrong with mentioning that Hall is the fastest "American born" marathoner ever. Take it for what it is - a footnote, a statistic, whatever. These distinctions make sports interesting and do not have to be heavy with racial undertones. The fact that so many people are quick to POLICE a person for pointing that harmless fact out is what's disturbing. Lighten up, and enjoy dissecting and discussing sports trivia.
NY Runner wrote:
It was hot and guys dropped. Other guys ran tactile.
not a bad race wrote:
I'd love to run tactile, but only if I'm running with some women. Sorry. That was a funny typo.
Funny, but not typo.
Since we're doing this based completely on appearances now, Hall looks too Russian or Scandinavian to me, he doesn't look American enough to be given consideration.
"Anyone turning it into a race argument is either being overly-defensive or has some race issues."
This is true. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that Hall is the fastest U.S.-born marathoner ever. That's a nod to his burgeoning greatness, not a slight to anyone else.
If Hall's time ranked only behind that of a couple of 2:07 naturalized Americans born in Canada or Europe who looked more or less like hall, none of those screaming "Of COURSE you're racist!" would be saying boo. They'd be on exactly the same "top Americanborn ever" bandwagon. If they deny this, they are not only stupid but lying as well.
But the main issue is this: If we're going to ignore the enormity of a 2:08:24 by a rookie in favor of petty bickering over whether Meb and Abdi are real genuine true Americans on merely actualy definite Americans, then we may as well give up, because the terrorists have already won.
The US distance running renaissance continues.
Hall is the Alan Webb of the roads.
ROAD KING.
Actually that was exactly what I was thinking. Hall has now stepped up to the level of Alan Webb at least.
You're building up a real stable of top class distance runners. The odds are that if you have Abdi, Khalid, Ritz, Hall etc. you're going to end up with a few that get injured and a few that make it to absolute world class.
Same as with Hansons, they have enough good level marathoners that someone is going to emerge as a much higher level competitor.
Superb run and he seemed VERY comfortable running at that pace and when he went off the back still kept very consistent. Was very very impressed by him.
I would say that Hall has surpassed Webb or at least is looking to. I'm a Webb fan but I think the smart money is on him never medaling in a WC or Olympic race (unless, like Hall, he turns out to be better at longer distances). At this point, Hall looks to be a marathon superstar in the next 10 years, assuming he doesn't pull a Salazar.
To be honest, just thinking about Webb's 10k performance...
Whilst a great miler and I think he'll be a top class performer over that distance for a while, I reckon if he alters his training he could be excellent over 1500-10,000, Mottram has done it and I think that Webb could certainly aspire to be at least as good as Mottram.
Regardless, they're both running very good times and able to be competitive at the world level albeit not medallists yet and I think that is very encouraging for American distance running.
Seguru wrote:
And that is a legitimate title
No, it actually isn't (what legit governing body sanctions it?) and it's as irrelevant as your bigotted expression.
[quote]dmobeef wrote:
This is the correct analysis. What we have here is an issue of non-East African Letsrunners who want to believe that they (or their kids) are not (or will not be) at a genetic disadvantage when they step out onto a track against people of East African descent.
By this token, the issue is NOT that Hall is American-born, but rather that he is not of East African descent. Eventually, we will have champion American-born runners of East African descent (Meb, Abdi, or Khannouchi's kids, perhaps?) but I think we will see people having the same issue with their performances because they have the same "good genes" as the Kenyans and Ethiopians.
I don't think this is a bad or even racist thing per se: it's nice for white people to be able to look to Mottram and Hall and realize that their race doesn't not put them at a major disadvantage in distance running (also perhaps true for white sprinters and Jeremy Wariner).
------------------------------------------------
problem is 99.99999% of people on letsrun have genes that are not anywhere close to hall's or mottram's. their genetic advantage puts them closer to the east africans than you and i.
Just wanted to say congrats, Ryan! You are an inspiration.
Swofford11 wrote:
Actually it is a little racists and discriminatory.
Because if you are a true American (which I don't believe you are by your statement) then you believe in the Constitution of the United States of America and what it stands for.
Since the Constitution says that KK is an American I think that means any of your points that you are attempting to make makes you un-American.
I'm betting that if you lived back in the 1870s you would claim that any records broken by an African American were not real America records because the African American was born a slave and was not a true American. I hope your get my point.
I know I hijacked the thread a little bit but I can't stand ignorant statements like this one.
In the end who cares about an American born record? IF you are a true American then you should only care about the American record. I bet you money that Hall isn’t sitting around right now cheering that he got the American born record. He wants the American record with no strings attached.
GREAT RUN BY HALL
So by this logic, let's go naturalize a bunch of Kenyan runners and that will return the US to marathoning dominance. They'd all be legit US citizens, but any AR's, WR's, or major marathon victories would be rather hollow wouldn't they?
Why do Americans get so excited when they just have one guy run 2.08.24? Ask yourself, you have 300 million people, Kenya + other countries have only has only 30 million. Wake up America, you should be ashamed for some of you posting here. Do something.
“ AMERICAN RUNNING IS BORN AGAIN. A REAL AMERICAN RUNNING THIS WELL, WOW, GREAT JOB” …blah blah blah…..it’s like you are death. …hoo I got it. Ritz died, so Hall is Born.