How fast will Goucher and Torres go on the 2nd???

No, twitlies, Pre showed great potential. Pre had a great college career. The rest was cut short. His greatness has increased through years of memories from people that weren't around at the time. His potential for greatness was amongst the best the U.S. has ever had.

You shouldn't use "either" when you have more than two choices--use "any."

Pbbfffttt!!!

4th place in the OLYMPICS is more than "potential"....it is ELITE! He showed the "potential" be a medalist in the future, but do we seriously only classify runners as elite if they medal in the olympics (remember that Komen guy, how many Oly medals did he have? That's right, he must not have been elite then).

This is from Torres race this weekend. I thikn that just barely beats his Pr...and still makes me think he could go 338. I quarantee he got beat on a kick...I never claimed he had a world class kick just htat his 1500 pr doesnt reflect his 1500 ability. He beat Goucher who ran a 356 earlier in the year. And lost by 2.29 seconds probably almost all in the last Lap...anyone know how the race unfolded? Anyway you put it..It looks good for Torres to push the A standard...Goucher...Well i hope he got more in him then that. So should Goucher move up since he couldnt kick with Torres this one race?

1500 m. 1. Job Tanui KEN 3.39.76, 2. Mwangi KEN 3.39.92, 3. Jorje Torres USA 3.42.05, 4. Adam Goucher USA 3.43.70, 5. Sammy Mutai KEN 3.44.96, 6. Martin Keino KEN 3.46.35, 7. Abdi Yusef AUT 3.47.29, 8. Panayotis Economou GRE 3.50.26, 9. Georgios Kombogiannis 3.52.09

If those 2.29 seconds were put on him on the last lap, then it would prove that he doesn't have great finishing speed, something they will need if they want to even make the final. Of course, thats assuming they get the "A" standard, which looks 50/50 at this point.

I realize often the first race in Europe can be a crash and burn when Americans go over, but my faith in Goucher has dropped. He ran 3:56/3:57 months ago and now he can't even run a 4:00 equivalent? I don't know who to root for anymore, besides Shay in the marathon, cause he has what all our other runners lack: SERIOUS BALLS.

Malone..I never ever claimed he could close with the best. El G can run a 326, Geb broke the two mile record indoors this year and he got outkicked by several guys this year. He obviously has a long way to go speed wise to be able to match up with El G, Bekele, Cheino?, kipketer, limo ect. All i said and reiterated was that i believe his speed is faster then what he is given credit for because he has never been in a race that could create his greatest possible time. He may be far from the speed of the best...But his endurance is far from the best as well.

mrr..why is it that when you make an argument about times and potential..you always say a guy is capable of running 2-3 seconds faster than he HAS..especially in a race that is even and conducive to fast finishing and he still can't win a 3:39 point race??

Your logic is so flawed..I have never heard worse analysis in my life as your Torres CAN run 3:39 ..or the Stanford guys able to run 13:20 when they are 9 seconds away from that on their best day ever..

Torres has now run quite a few 1500's and has never run faster than the 3:42.05 recorded yesterday

Espo wrote:

Salazar only having 59 speed, yeah right.

4:04 with 59 400m speed is impossible.

Don't suppose you want to explain your reasoning here, do you?

Nope, I'll stick with 4th at a persons first Olympics, when not folowed by any top 3 finishes at world level in an indicator, and only an indicator, of potential. Nowhere did I say you have to have an Olympic medal to be considered elite--Komen has nothing to do with this. It is a matter of doing something at a high level more than once.

I saw him run. I hoped for his good health and development because of what he could be. Then I picked up the paper one morning and read that it was over.

i think espo's logic was that if someone can only run 59 for a flat out 400 then it is impossible for them to run 61 pace for a full mile. that clear enough for you, dimwitt? it's pretty easy to understand actually, if you have any concept of what running is as a sport.

well, with no WC back then Pre did finish very highly at many "elite" European meets during his career, and I bet if you ask any of the top guys at that time if Pre was elite they would say yes (if they're honest)....not THE best in the world, but among the world's elite, yes. Question: When Pre ran 13:22 to break his AR, how many people had run faster than that for 5k? You are right though, Pre's success was an indicator of potential, but that doesn't mean that he was not elite at that time either. Geb's 26:54 (or thereabouts) was a WR at the time, but was really only an "indicator of his future potential." So was that not an "elite" performance then, because it wasn't the max of his potential? When Alan Webb ran 4:06 as a sophomore in HS, that was a great indicator of what he might do as a senior, but it also made him an elite HS runner at that very moment too (ie 4:06 being elite for HS and also indicating that he might run much faster his senior year.) Comprendes culiero?

Sorry mrr, but EVERY race Torres has been in at 1500 was set up to go fast, at least for him. If the races weren't fast enough for him he would have won them going away...instead of running a 4:00/4:01 equivalent and getting trounced.

I have just enough grasp of running as a sport and mathematics as a tool to understand that you should not use the word "impossible" when dealing with human performance. Unbelievable performances keep popping up to spoil the extrapolations.

"Dimwit" only has one "t."

does anyone know of the meet on the 2nd's website?

I can find "KBC Night of Athletics" in several places (IAAF Grand Prix listings), but cannot find a link to a Web site. If you search on Google with the above name, there is an e-service that appears it might have live results.

king99 wrote:

mrr..why is it that when you make an argument about times and potential..you always say a guy is capable of running 2-3 seconds faster than he HAS..especially in a race that is even and conducive to fast finishing and he still can't win a 3:39 point race??

Your logic is so flawed..I have never heard worse analysis in my life as your Torres CAN run 3:39 ..or the Stanford guys able to run 13:20 when they are 9 seconds away from that on their best day ever..

Torres has now run quite a few 1500's and has never run faster than the 3:42.05 recorded yesterday

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN

Yup, mrr, you have some weird disposition to say every guy "can do better in such and such race." you almost NEVER take prs's at face value. it's a goddaman shame. i guess coe's 1:41 is shit 'cuz he didn't have anyone to race with the last 50 meters. and geb? well, he could beat 26:22 'cuz he smoke everyone in the race. and montgermery? well the last 20 meters he was all alone so he could shave 1 or 2 seconds off his time.

goddaman.

mrr, we ALL don't/can't hate you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm not gonna say change your thoughts, just, listen......open your puppy eyes.

True, to say "impossible" is not very smart, but certain things are IMPOSSIBLE. Will anyone ever run a mile in 3 seconds? NO! Is it humanly possible to run a 4:04 mile if you can only run a 59 second quarter flat out? NO. If Salazar ran 4:04 then the idea that he coudl only run 59 is absurd. That may be the fastest he ever officially ran for all I know, but he certainly could have run much faster if he ran 4:04. Do you know anyone who can only run 59 flat out and can run 2:02 for an 800, let alone 61 pace for a whole mile?

Hahaha, I win.

Jonathon K. wrote:

True, to say "impossible" is not very smart, but certain things are IMPOSSIBLE. Will anyone ever run a mile in 3 seconds? NO! Is it humanly possible to run a 4:04 mile if you can only run a 59 second quarter flat out? NO. If Salazar ran 4:04 then the idea that he coudl only run 59 is absurd. That may be the fastest he ever officially ran for all I know, but he certainly could have run much faster if he ran 4:04. Do you know anyone who can only run 59 flat out and can run 2:02 for an 800, let alone 61 pace for a whole mile?

Hahaha, I win.

I beg to differ. If human beings get their stride lengths to 800-1000 meters like Hulk in the movie "HULK", then a 3 second mile IS possible.

Thank you

Indeed - in 1,000 years 'human beings' may have evolved into quite different creatures to what we are now. Who knows what the future holds?