Not a bad list, but to try to make my point I think that only half of those would do a really good job, which is what you would be hoping for. The other half migh do a decent job if you were the right athlete for them to work with, which is too much like hit amd miss to me.
I have no intention of suggesting which are in which list, you can draw up your own.
Mark Rowland and John Nuttall are paid full time UKA coaches, Mick Woods might be but I am not sure.
ok so basically mr barber your a bud fan, but you still didnt say who he has coached to top class although you have told me is he has a chat with a famous runner and has an input into alot of uni kids.....im sold, he is the best coach!
Doesn't Bud coach Dan Robinson? He can run a bit.
The point is, one good athlete doesn't make the coach. Stanton is not a good coach because of Radcliffe, but look at how many girls he's coached to English schools medals/junior international vests. The conversion rate into seniors afterwards is very often out of the coaches hands and down to socioeconomic factors. It is also extremely rare for 1 coach to take a kid through to be a world class senior with no outside assistance. Peter Coe didn't do this with Seb, as George Gandy and Peter Martin were big influences. Likewise with Radcliffe, a whole host of people have had input including Lough, Max Jones, Hartman. Maybe Harry Wilson was the exception with Ovett, but didn't Andy Norman have influence and was Ovett so ridiculously talented he'd have been great regardless?
In the UK though the 'big name' coaches tend not to deal with juniors but take promising 20 somethings from university age and over and take them one level up. They can be accused of 'cherry picking' but if the athletes were to languish without their help then they are doing a worthwhile job. From what Ben Fish has told us, he needs the input of someone with experience such as this. His coach at Blackburn still has a role to play as a personal coach with close monitoring, but it appears they need outside input to push him on a little bit more. The list provided was just a few names within the UK who would probably know what was needed but I didn't assume they could all help. Also, my sincere apologies to friends of Jimmy Hedley
I don't think the fault lies with any of the coaches to be honest, i think the problem lies with athletes who are looking for a quick fix when they should look a little closer to home, there is a high number of athletes, one promising female I can think of who seems to change coaches as often as her socks. One thing that does wind me up is when athletes all join one club because their coach is associated with that particular club, is that really neccesary, have also heard rumours of athletes being told 'I will coach you but you have to join ________' which is just plain wrong, empire building, its laughable! Obviously there area lot of people ot there with not enough going on in their lives.
Yep. I'm a Bud fan. I'm biased - he's a good friend.
That's why I replied when you have chosen to anonymously criticise Bud based on 'i hear...' You are questioning who he has coached but then your next sentence shows that neither are you aware of who Nick Anderson coaches.
You've got no facts to back up what you say and are making unfounded criticisms.
I've known Bud a long while. From all I have seen his track record speaks for itself. He has coached world class athletes, brought juniors through, is well respected by great athletes and by great coaches.
I'm not really out to change your mind. I'm pointing out what your have 'heard' bears no resemblance to what I have seen.
As Bud is a friend I think people should be aware of that and am I'm quite prepared to put my name to my comments.
I don't expect to change your mind as your agenda is shown by the way you view Paula seeking Bud's input on marathon training.
Many people have had a chat with a famous athlete - I'm sure most readers understood that was not the point. Paula wanted Bud's input on marathon preparation. Paula & Gary were deep in conversation with Bud when I arrived to go through some stuff with Gary. Paula asked if I'd mind hanging fire as they had more that they wanted to talk to Bud about. Paula & Gary were seriously busy at the time, I think Paula has a fair idea about marathon running and access to some of the top experts. If she and Gary were putting meetings back to get more of Bud's input I think that says something about how she views his knowledge on the sport.
But may be 'you hear' that Paula doesn't know much about marathon running and gets bad advice?
I cant see any coach in the uk or club for that matter actually insist on an athlete being joining the club before he can train there . in my opinion most athletes who moves coach's and then change clubs do so before they wish to compete for the club that is providing them with all the facilites and also to compete alongside training partners in lg's/relays etc and get the group atmosphere going.
That isn't the case.
i only know of bud as i seem to hear his voice at every race and still aint heard who he has coached yet just that you like him very much (im a modern man and understand that) and if you throw paulas name in enough then bud should be granted a top coach, im just asking on what grounds is he so good, and on nick anderson i only know of him from when everyone made a fuss because he smoked and then then ran one marathon (from what i can see)and iv never heard of any of the runners he coaches. anyway im off on hols for some winter sun.
tell bud i say hi as i have a feeling you'll see him tonight.....
When I switched clubs I joined the one my coach at the time was a memeber of. But my move was certainly not due to pressure. In fact he went out of his way to make clear he was not expecting me to do this.
I do know of coaches/clubs who have this attitude though. It's often reflected by, or indicative of, the insular nature of the club/coach though.
nick anderson is the one who ran kula lumpar isnt it at 40 something i think?
That was Keith Anderson.
Nick anderson doesn't smoke. You're getting him very confused with someone else!
Also, if you've not heard of anyone he coches then maybe it's pointless trying to speak to you as he coaches some very good athletes: 3 or 4 top 10 UK marathon women and Andy Vernon was 3rd in the UK XC Challenge last week. What a nobody!
Have a nice holiday then.
you don't have to be coached to run well over longer distances. Most people have enough sense to know the basics of what to do. Moderate-High mileage of 100+ miles a week, with a sensible race schedule and appropriate workouts. Putting in the miles takes a bit of the guess work out of it all.............you don't need someone to tell you to run twice a day for 10-20 miles at a time.
Quit blaming everything on poor coaching
Ben M wrote:
Also, if you've not heard of anyone he coches then maybe it's pointless trying to speak to you as he coaches some very good athletes: 3 or 4 top 10 UK marathon women and Andy Vernon was 3rd in the UK XC Challenge last week. What a nobody!
He also coaches some kid called Moreau, but he's rubbish!
moreau spends more time trying to look like michael myers from the halloween movies than he does training! haha
'British Athlete' - you should copyright this and use it as the saviour of UK endurance. Certainly having it clarified that 'Moderate -High mileage of 100+ miles a week' is fundamental, can steer all athletes and coaches away from any deluded idea that weekly mileage in two digits will do them any good longer term. Also the point that all runs should be at least 10 miles is great to know.
I'm really annoyed I wasted my time and cash at the BMC seminar on sunday now that I realise that just 2 1/2 lines of text does the trick.
True. I am rubbish. Rubb-ish.
hey ben, its antony i am back from the states for the short term and i could meet up with you for long runs etc if you want. I am in base phase for cross, it sounds like we are doing similar mileage, so anytime you want to meet up the offers there
coaches union wrote:
Maybe Harry Wilson was the exception with Ovett, but didn't Andy Norman have influence and was Ovett so ridiculously talented he'd have been great regardless?
Harry Wilson used to see Steve Ovett every now and then, maily for the key stuff. He certainly didn't go to all his sessions. Ovett used to run with a guy called Matt Paterson everyday and it was Matt that set most of what Ovett did. They had a shared belief that if you trained hard everyday you'd end up pretty fit.
Steve used Matt as guidance as to when to ease off and when to race. The rest was instinctive and certainly not 'coached'.
I believe Peter Coe turned to George for weights and plyometrics and not for general training.
To the orginal poster Ben. I ran most of Chichester 10km with you in February, you managed to get away in the final km. Keep your head down, keep training hard. 30 minutes will come and go. A guy I work with ran 14.02 on the track and ran 29.07 on the road for 10km. So you'll have no problems.
Trouble with most 10kms is that they're in the winter and the weather is not always favourable. And there are a few races these days where you can get accurate split times.
Whereas track races can be in the most ideal of climates and you get fantastic feedback over splits.