malmo wrote:
Vipam wrote:Ryan ran a great race time wise but make you wonder if he should stayed alittle closer to the leaders?
No. The field paid dearly for the pace. Hall ran a perfectly paced race.
This race wasnt about pace it was about place. So in other words, he ran a perfectly 11TH place paced race...but cmon, eventually our guys are going to have to say screw the time, im going for it all or nothing.
malmo Thank you !!
Why is this about Ritz vs Ryan? They are both pretty darn good. Do we have room for more than one or two really talented runners in this country? I hope so.
It doesn't appear that Hall could have run faster in that race, and hence he couldn't have placed any higher by altering his strategy and pace. The Pre Myth has led too many people to simplistically believe that all that it takes to run better is to have more guts and go out faster. Hall ran with both smarts and guts today, no one should expect him to do better than his best.
[quote]ttc wrote:
Hall ran great, as the AR shows (though the course was lightening fast for a distance rarely run). But basing talk on him being our next hope shouldn't be based on this race. He was off pace by an average of 28 seconds per 5K, meaning the field was seriously diluted for him to finish 11th. Maybe Hall should move up to the high distances and look towards the marathon. But I think it needs to be put in perspective, similar to when Clint Verran finished 17th in the world half marathon, as we knew he was very good but not great.
I'm not being negative for the sake of it, but to slow down the 'next great U.S. hope' talk.....
Translation: RH destroyed the AR by almost 50 seconds. But that's JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
Translation of translation: I, typical Letsrun poster, hate myself. So I take out that self-hatred on my fellow American runners. I wouldn't THINK of insulting the guys from Kenya and Ethiopia who Hall beat; they're just good, solid, world-class runners. But Hall? He sucks, basically, no matter how fast he runs. That's why I begin with praise and then, point by point, tear him apart. I hate myself. American runners suck!
I don't think that we should be knocking on Ritz or Hall...both of their perfomances are great for US distance running. Instead of saying "Oh, Ritz is better than Hall" or "Hall is better than Ritz" lets just be content with the fact that we have two guys running great that can potentially contend with the best in the world in the next few years.
Thank you. The power of positive thinking.
au contraire wrote:
Translation: RH destroyed the AR by almost 50 seconds. But that's JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
Translation of translation: I, typical Letsrun poster, hate myself. So I take out that self-hatred on my fellow American runners. I wouldn't THINK of insulting the guys from Kenya and Ethiopia who Hall beat; they're just good, solid, world-class runners. But Hall? He sucks, basically, no matter how fast he runs. That's why I begin with praise and then, point by point, tear him apart. I hate myself. American runners suck!
No, translation of my post is don't overrate Hall's race to the point of comparing it to Ritz' 13.1, when he beat the marathon gold medalist. Sure Hall demolished the record, but it seems the course was ridiculously fast, as he still got outpaced by 28 seconds/5K. If our track 10K'ers were beat by 56 seconds in a world final, we'd call that getting smoked, and disappointing. I don't like unfair bashing, but I'm also not going to sidestep and ignore. Hall's race was not what Ritz ran last weekend.
Forgive me for saying so, but Hall ran faster through 20K than ANY AMERICAN EVER and that includes Ritz. The bottom line is Hall has a record, Ritz does not in the senior races.
.45 Leaves a Nice Hole wrote:
Forgive me for saying so, but Hall ran faster through 20K than ANY AMERICAN EVER and that includes Ritz. The bottom line is Hall has a record, Ritz does not in the senior races.
I'm almost positive that Curp ran about 57:45 during his WR 1:00:55 half-marathon in 1985 - especially considering that the 20k mark at Philly is just after a long hill.
excellent run by hall. he's got even greater things to come. no doubt.
ttc wrote:
No, translation of my post is don't overrate Hall's race to the point of comparing it to Ritz' 13.1, when he beat the marathon gold medalist. Sure Hall demolished the record, but it seems the course was ridiculously fast, as he still got outpaced by 28 seconds/5K. If our track 10K'ers were beat by 56 seconds in a world final, we'd call that getting smoked, and disappointing. I don't like unfair bashing, but I'm also not going to sidestep and ignore. Hall's race was not what Ritz ran last weekend.
Um, Great North is a pretty fast course too. There have been some damn fast times there, including one by the winner of Hall's race(Tadesse). Maybe Tadesse is just on another level. Ritz was 2.5 minutes off the 1/2 WR. Not sure why you don't the think the best in the world wouldn't smoke him too:
A) Baldini has been beaten by TONS of people at distances under a marathon. He is much, much better at the marathon then races 1/2 that distance or under. AND he's getting on in years.....he surely gonna be slowing down/picking his spots soon.
B) as great as Ramalla is, I think at this point Tadesse is on another level at 1/2 marathon. Ramaala hasn't broken 60 in 4 years, and this what Tadesse has done the LAST TWO years:
2 59:05a Zersenay Tadesse ERI 08.02.82 1 Newcastle-South Shields 18.09.2005
6 59:16 Zersenay Tadesse ERI 08.02.82 1 Rotterdam 10.09.2006
IN short, there is no very firm reason to believe that Ritz would have beaten Hall in that 20k, unless you are gonna make more of the "beating Baldini" thing than I think should be.
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
Um, Great North is a pretty fast course too. .
It wasn't fast this year because there was a headwind.
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
2 59:05a Zersenay Tadesse ERI 08.02.82 1 Newcastle-South Shields 18.09.2005
6 59:16 Zersenay Tadesse ERI 08.02.82 1 Rotterdam 10.09.2006
IN short, there is no very firm reason to believe that Ritz would have beaten Hall in that 20k, unless you are gonna make more of the "beating Baldini" thing than I think should be.
Hall finished 1:53 behind Tedesse on a perfect day, so that makes him 1:53 + 59:16 = 61:09. What makes you think that Halls perfect run would be anywhere near Ritz's 61:25 on a terrible day for racing?
An inconvenient truth is that Ritz's 20k split at Great North would have been about 58:13.
Austin Powers wrote:
Hall finished 1:53 behind Tedesse on a perfect day, so that makes him 1:53 + 59:16 = 61:09. What makes you think that Halls perfect run would be anywhere near Ritz's 61:25 on a terrible day for racing?
An inconvenient truth is that Ritz's 20k split at Great North would have been about 58:13.
How soon do we forget? Abdirahman's split time at Philadelphia a few weeks ago would have been about 57:56.
Vipam wrote:
It just made me wonder if Hall hadn't let them get WELL over a minute ahead of him, could he have placed higher than 11th. Just on his stats alone his last 10km showed he had alot left in the tank and I guarantee he's thinking the same thing- should he have went out alittle faster. Only a handful of runners went with Tadesse for the first 10km, yet Ryan Hall ran faster than MOST of them for the 2nd 10km and ALL of them except Tadesse for the last 5km.
Judging by his first 10km it seem Ryan had a game plan of going for the American Record and got in easily.
It just amazes me that with all the info on the internet and all the books about running that people still do not understand how to race properly. Maybe the other 21 RUNNERS THAT WENT OUT WITH THE LEADERS and got BEAT by Ryan Hall should have gone out SLOWER.
My guess is that Ryan Hall's "game plan" was to run the fastest that he possibly could which would result in the highest possible place he was capable of and he accomplished that.
It takes more "guts" to let everyone else go the first part of the race and have the confidence that you will catch them than it does to blast out too fast knowing you will blow up and fail miserably.
so what the great north run had a slight headwind, is everyone forgetting it is also a net downhill course... hall had a fantastic run
i am so sick of how everyone on this board is so quick to love ritz and bash the other american runners... ritz will beat webb in a 10k, ritz is better than hall, ritz will beat meb in the marathon... until he does things you people need to shut up
hall ran a blazing fast race, i'm not going to draw any conclusions about ritz being able to do it faster because there really isn't a way to tell
ramaala toyed with ritz and the others and could have run great north faster (he himself has said this), hall by a 1:30 or so to one of the best half-marathoners in what appears to be an all-out effort near time trial
Finally-exactly. Ritz was in a race where the winner was surging, toying with the field. Hall was in a flat out horse race. While some will say the former is a harder type of race, for Hall run down people in a time trial is amazing. Let's not forget, this is only the second 20k for Hall. I think he and Ritz have a great future ahead of them at the 1/2 marathon and even the marathon. And also, the knock against Hall was that he finished "only 11th" and didn't show enough guts to go with the leaders. Believe me, Hall has plenty of guts. He can be borderline crazy the way he attacks races. Give him time. I know his goal is to match up head to head with the best Kenyans and beat them. He'll get there.
Just to throw some cold water on the party: Hall's 11th is only four places better than Shay's 15th at the (more or less) same event last year. By the way, the margin of loss to the winner is almost the same as well (1:53 to 2:05). ARs in road races are great and everything, but Hall was 39 seconds and 8 Africans away from a podium spot.
you are all wrong.
its actually:
1:01:02.014