I just read through the thread. It's a challenging but entirely possible goal. I looked at my old times and the last time I ran a sub-20 5k was a 19:58 at age 68. At 69 I ran 20:30, and the fastest I've done since turning 70 was 21:05. As you mentioned, at this age it's all about getting in a good stretch of healthy and injury-free training.
When I ran those times I was running about 2200 miles per year and around 45-50 miles per week for 3-4 months before the 5k. I usually was running 6-7days per week with a mid-week VO2 max interval workout of 3-4 miles that varied from 400s up to mile repeats. Saturdays I would run a 6-8 mile trail run at or near threshold pace, and Sundays I would do a 10 mile long run at whatever pace felt comfortable that day. The other days would be very easy recovery runs, sometimes with walking sections if I felt particularly tired from the workout days.
Good luck with your goal. I'm 76 now and in hindsight thinking about the last 10 years of training I would say that at this age volume is more important than intensity and in making choices about training always opt for the choice that provides more volume.
Good post. Jan, I am older than you and understand the challenge. I would recommend concentrating on building up your volume to above 2000 miles pa to begin with. However at your age and no recent training, this in itself could take a considerable time, but is worth the investment. Don't be fooled by quick improvement. You may drop your time down to 22:xx after a few months, but this is a million miles away from sub 20:00.
Interested in following progress. I am 68, was a 15:20 back in day, last ran low 19 in 2017, but havent trained much and no races since. Sub 25 with no running, can 'kick' last k under 4:15, back under 60kg (2017 trained weight, 1985 weight 54kg and 1.65m). Similarly I feel I could easily get to 22, but need work from there really.
I just need to make that transition from 4km and 5km jogs to a set routine , not even anything scientific, even if it is 4 runs of 10km to 20km, 2 cycles per week, plus the important thing now is muscle strength, especially the quads. More protein in diet, weighted squats, cycling etc
Good post. Jan, I am older than you and understand the challenge. I would recommend concentrating on building up your volume to above 2000 miles pa to begin with. However at your age and no recent training, this in itself could take a considerable time, but is worth the investment. Don't be fooled by quick improvement. You may drop your time down to 22:xx after a few months, but this is a million miles away from sub 20:00.
Interested in following progress. I am 68, was a 15:20 back in day, last ran low 19 in 2017, but havent trained much and no races since. Sub 25 with no running, can 'kick' last k under 4:15, back under 60kg (2017 trained weight, 1985 weight 54kg and 1.65m). Similarly I feel I could easily get to 22, but need work from there really.
To put things into some sort of perspective, I reckon a sub 20 at age 68ish is around 15:20ish on an age grade basis. The problem is, by the time you get yourself into the best shape possible, you may be circa 2 years older.
To put things into some sort of perspective, I reckon a sub 20 at age 68ish is around 15:20ish on an age grade basis. The problem is, by the time you get yourself into the best shape possible, you may be circa 2 years older.
I'm thinking (hoping) that I am in pretty good shape at moment (haven't really been sedendary and kept 'running'), plus I believe that the 15:20 was a bit light on with respect to other performances, amount of training etc I did at that time.
...let's see...not going to know without a shot, and you do need ambitious goals to keep motivated to train. Less than 2 years to 70, and that is the greater goal period now.
I just need to make that transition from 4km and 5km jogs to a set routine , not even anything scientific, even if it is 4 runs of 10km to 20km, 2 cycles per week, plus the important thing now is muscle strength, especially the quads. More protein in diet, weighted squats, cycling etc
And stay injury free.
Just hang in here and try to copy what I do mostly when we seem to be at the same level around 25 min 5 k now. Welcome! 🧙♂️🖐
To put things into some sort of perspective, I reckon a sub 20 at age 68ish is around 15:20ish on an age grade basis. The problem is, by the time you get yourself into the best shape possible, you may be circa 2 years older.
I'm thinking (hoping) that I am in pretty good shape at moment (haven't really been sedendary and kept 'running'), plus I believe that the 15:20 was a bit light on with respect to other performances, amount of training etc I did at that time.
...let's see...not going to know without a shot, and you do need ambitious goals to keep motivated to train. Less than 2 years to 70, and that is the greater goal period now.
I'm thinking (hoping) that I am in pretty good shape at moment (haven't really been sedendary and kept 'running'), plus I believe that the 15:20 was a bit light on with respect to other performances, amount of training etc I did at that time.
...let's see...not going to know without a shot, and you do need ambitious goals to keep motivated to train. Less than 2 years to 70, and that is the greater goal period now.
Finding a fast 5k course is also a must.
I guess my sub 20 attempt will be on the track . We will see if it happens....as someone told it's good to have ambitious goals to stay motivated to train.
That’s really impressive. I didn’t know if one guy was trolling or clueless when he referred to sub-20 as a “low bar” for someone over 65. I’d been hoping/planning to be there at 60 but as I’m getting pretty close I don’t know if I’ll make it. What were your times like when you were much younger?
As you say a sub 20 min by an age 68 guy is extremely good! The guy who tried to disparage that sub 20 to an age 65+ runner is one of the many years stalkers have been harassed me and my coaching here at LRC for many years. But I will never " feed" them here in this thread by argue with them . When I will run for sure a sub 20 next year they will hide away haha! Coach J.S
Jan,
The only reason I emphasise that your goal is somewhat average is to counterbalance your claims of how incredible everything you do is.
For example you boast about random slow runners getting a tiny bit faster thanks to your magic coaching. It's all just a bit silly.
And the reason I have been 'stalking' you for years, is because you have been repeating the same lies and baseless claims for years.
Your athletes have achieved zero high level race results since you started these shenanigans years ago and I expect in 5 years time it will be much the same.
Delvis will have his moment and then come to nothing (or hopefully move to a coach who can actually help him) and you will spend your days telling us about the next great talent you are coaching who will also get nowhere near what you claim they will. And the cycle will repeat again and again.
I'm just here to balance out the dream world you exist in inside your head with a small dose of reality.
It’s obviously just Internet BS but it does bring up an interesting topic about what it takes for a 65-year-old person to run a sub 20 5K.
IMO you had to have been sub 15min in your prime.
It might be doable for people who were sub-16 in their primes. I ran 19:28 in a rustbuster at 62 (and 19:52 off worse training in a rustbuster at 63 a couple of months ago), so I have a decent shot at sub-20 at 65 if all goes well. I ran two years of XC in high school, and my best time was 16:07 for 3 miles. Then I got injured and didn't train for many years. I had no speed, so I'm not convinced I could have gone under 15 at my peak.
I guess my sub 20 attempt will be on the track . We will see if it happens....as someone told it's good to have ambitious goals to stay motivated to train.
Coach JS has made magnificent strides since last year when I saw him when he weighed just over 98- 100 kg (220lbs), and he's now down to 88 kg (195lbs),but no one weighing 88 kg (195) is going to run under 20 minutes for 5 km especially at age 66 so my basic message is that coach JS would have to get down to between 75 to 78 kg maximum to be able to achieve his goal and that means anywhere between 165 to 170 lb rather than 195lb where he's at now, at 6.2 (1.88cm).
I guess my sub 20 attempt will be on the track . We will see if it happens....as someone told it's good to have ambitious goals to stay motivated to train.
Coach JS has made magnificent strides since last year when I saw him when he weighed just over 98- 100 kg (220lbs), and he's now down to 88 kg (195lbs),but no one weighing 88 kg (195) is going to run under 20 minutes for 5 km especially at age 66 so my basic message is that coach JS would have to get down to between 75 to 78 kg maximum to be able to achieve his goal and that means anywhere between 165 to 170 lb rather than 195lb where he's at now, at 6.2 (1.88cm).
You are right of course about weight. When I was at my prime as a national elite runner 14:20 5000m my weight was around 70 kg . But we will see what happens . Nowadays mostly I eat only two meals daily and I do some fasting now and then. I thought it would be hard to be without food many hours but amazed how easy it is to me. My "record" now 43 hours .... and fasting is great when doing it enough hours it triggers and starts the so called autophagy where the body " selfhealing" and replace bad cells / mitochondria with new fresh cells and important stemcells....
Today I ran easy lactate interval. 8 x 600m again and 3:17- 3:27 min , rest 90 sec- 3 min . Concentrated on keep breathing easy. 🧙♂️🌲
Just hang in here and try to copy what I do mostly when we seem to be at the same level around 25 min 5 k now. Welcome! 🧙♂️🖐
Thanks for the offer, but really, I have been running/coaching for 50 years without copying anyone. It (the training) is not rocket science, there are a few other things that need to be right that will make the difference
I am actually in better than 25min at moment, already obviously under and could push right now for a 23:xx
Actually as an aside, when on a 3 month holiday earlier this year at my brother's place overseas, in their drinking/eating culture, I ballooned up to almost 70kg (highest ever), but still ocassionally ran his dog instead of walking it. Both of us dipped under 25min despite drinking every day
I took about 15 years off racing between age 44 and 59, and have run a few 5k races since. I continued to run during that break, although at much lower volume tan previously. Over a year and a half of race attempts I gradually improved from 20:03 to 19:28, and hope (!) to improve a little more next month on a very flat course at 60 years and 7 months.
The main difference for me (just one data point) between training and racing at 59-60 versus 44 is the difficulty managing reasonable volume and workouts without risking injury. While I used to average about 65 mpw, sometimes getting above 100, i now usually run about 25 and might see 35 occasionally. With a couple of workouts a week, thats about my personal limit.
I’ve kept the workouts very simple, typically rotating between 400s at close to mile pace, 1000s close to 5k pace and longer stuff (maybe 2000s at close to 10k pace or longer strong “tempo”).
I have not personally (yet, anyway) managed to reach equivalent times from my younger racing days; the 19:28 was about 82% age-graded (2015 WMA tables) versus 84-87% across the range from 1500-HM at 42-44. It strikes me that regaining your youth, in age-graded terms, is very difficult, at least for me.
Best of luck in the attempt. I hope it goes better than Henry Rono’s public attempts on here a dozen or so years ago.
Come on Jan and put your “wallet” where your “mouth” is.
1. set a date by when you will complete your goal.
2. describe what your mesocycles will be
3. Documents your microcycle at the end of each week and how you are feeling, you can omit paces and recovery because that’s your magic, but show the types of sessions from your training diary
You will either succeed and show your success and get more clients or it crashes and burns and show the method needs some refinement for a master athlete.
either way it’s good for you to finally do this as you have said you a lot about your method on the forum over the last 10 years
Jan, you should seriously consider Norwegian Singles Method. You are much faster than me back in the day but I almost broke 20 recently at Battersea with a 20:11 and I'm well into my 60s. My best was a low 16 back in the 80s
Pound of pound I am better than I ever have been in all that time, given age grading as a rough guide. If you are interested I posted on the NSM Strava group and there's a few other old guys at least starving off the hands of time a bit!
The key is that consistency it brought me in older age, something you are lacking. My experience as an older runner (you are yet really to experience it, having not trained for so long) is that intensity will be your enemy. Even the hill sprints you are doing really aren't going to do much, you are going to need consistent, smart and measured volume, not intensity. That is the beauty of NSM for old guys like us.
Jan, you should seriously consider Norwegian Singles Method. You are much faster than me back in the day but I almost broke 20 recently at Battersea with a 20:11 and I'm well into my 60s. My best was a low 16 back in the 80s
Pound of pound I am better than I ever have been in all that time, given age grading as a rough guide. If you are interested I posted on the NSM Strava group and there's a few other old guys at least starving off the hands of time a bit!
The key is that consistency it brought me in older age, something you are lacking. My experience as an older runner (you are yet really to experience it, having not trained for so long) is that intensity will be your enemy. Even the hill sprints you are doing really aren't going to do much, you are going to need consistent, smart and measured volume, not intensity. That is the beauty of NSM for old guys like us.
I'm only in my 50s but also had success beyond my expectations using NSM. But you won't get Jan to try it, he's far too stubborn, far too stuck in his ways and thinks a system called DANCAN which is just Daniels and Canova merged, is going to get a 66 year old to sub 20. I can't think of a much worse combination than those two philosophies for battered up old hobby joggers. We are so far away from what they were designed for, may as well be a different sport.