I think it's pretty common knowledge around here that total weekly volume is far more important than running a long run in each week.
True.
But also common knowledge :
- marathon pace always feels easy for the first hour or so
- running your marathon pace for every easy run is one of the surest ways to injury or burnout
- whatever the measurement tools employed, runners will invent all sort of excuses to explain why standard ranges of said measure for easy run don't apply to themselves and end up running their marathon pace for an easy pace unless they have experienced themselves that this pace actually feels hard to maintain after 90 minutes.
- i'm not even openning the can of worms that are adaptations that supposedly need sustained effort level durations to be maximized
I disagree with your first point. I train with guys running 2:2x in the marathon and a 10 mi tempo at even 10s slower than MP is not easy for them when dealing with fatigued legs deep into high volume weeks.
something we know for sure is that long runs are completely unnecessary for 5000 meters. Jakob Ingebrigtsen proves this. im not certain about the 10000, though Jakob has had quite good Euro cross success...but euro cross success is a long away from what he's shown in the 5000.
I thought the same damny thing. That has to be a bot, right? The way the OP wrote but then I did look up an IP address from Germany.
Either a bot or hobbs kessler?
Hobbs, back when I was training I didn't feel like i was even wamred up until I was 45 minutes into daily afternoon 10-15 miler. Running for an hour several times a week isn't a lot
Hobbs is putting the work in. Keep in mind that Rojo and Hobbs' physiologies aren't in the same universe.
From Hobbs' Strava:
09:06 on Monday, 1 December 2025 Coconino National Forest, USA Morning Run Distance 9.65 km Pace 4:29 /km Time 43m 22s
16:14 on Monday, 1 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Strides in da cold Distance 9.65 km Pace 4:24 /km Time 42m 31s
08:23 on Tuesday, 2 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Wu Distance 4.04 km Pace 4:38 /km Time 18m 45s
08:58 on Tuesday, 2 December 2025 5x6min Distance 10.20 km Pace 3:43 /km Time 37m 53s
15:35 on Tuesday, 2 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA 4s Distance 15.17 km Pace 4:11 /km Time 1h 3m
09:36 on Wednesday, 3 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Morning Run Distance 9.66 km Pace 4:39 /km Time 44m 57s
15:21 on Wednesday, 3 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Afternoon Run Distance 9.66 km Pace 4:34 /km Time 44m 5s
10:32 on Thursday, 4 December 2025 Coconino National Forest, USA Hills Distance 14.33 km Elev Gain 416 m Time 1h 1m
17:42 on Thursday, 4 December 2025 7x3mins Distance 11.70 km Pace 3:54 /km Time 45m 33s
09:18 on Friday, 5 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Morning Run Distance 9.66 km Pace 4:39 /km Time 44m 52s
16:57 on Friday, 5 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Afternoon Run Distance 9.48 km Elev Gain 229 m Time 49m 54s
08:34 on Saturday, 6 December 2025 Flagstaff, USA Up Distance 3.99 km Pace 4:48 /km Time 19m 11s
09:29 on Saturday, 6 December 2025 4x10min Distance 13.74 km Pace 3:30 /km Time 48m 7s
16:46 on Saturday, 6 December 2025 San Juan County, USA Afternoon Run Distance 7.07 km Pace 4:36 /km Time 32m 29s
I thought the same damny thing. That has to be a bot, right? The way the OP wrote but then I did look up an IP address from Germany.
Either a bot or hobbs kessler?
The OP wrote:
In fact, my two best 10K performances came during periods when my longest run in the preceding six weeks was no more than 7.5 mile
Hobbs, back when I was training I didn't feel like i was even wamred up until I was 45 minutes into daily afternoon 10-15 miler. Running for an hour several times a week isn't a lot
Rojo, being able to look up IP addresses can be a positive tool. Good for helping moderation decisions internally. Not a good thing to be broadcasting to LRC users. It reminds the crowd that you are untrustworthy. Nobody wants you to spy on them. Just sayin'.
ChatGTP = how many times has ChatGTP been proven to be unreliable?
- marathon pace always feels easy for the first hour or so
- running your marathon pace for every easy run is one of the surest ways to injury or burnout
- whatever the measurement tools employed, runners will invent all sort of excuses to explain why standard ranges of said measure for easy run don't apply to themselves and end up running their marathon pace for an easy pace unless they have experienced themselves that this pace actually feels hard to maintain after 90 minutes.
- i'm not even openning the can of worms that are adaptations that supposedly need sustained effort level durations to be maximized
I disagree with your first point. I train with guys running 2:2x in the marathon and a 10 mi tempo at even 10s slower than MP is not easy for them when dealing with fatigued legs deep into high volume weeks.
My experience is training with guys 10 minutes faster than you. Ten mile tempo runs at marathon pace is easy ... really easy.
Also a 10k performance includes a lot of factors outside of training or long runs in a 6 week training plan.
we’re all other variables constant? Weight? Physical condition? General fitness?
No one is saying long runs aren't valuable or that you shouldn't do them. Liking them is a good thing.
I'm saying exactly that. For most runners, they shouldn't be doing long runs. Long runs are for professionals, or highly competitive college and high school runners. Everyone else should be allocating their mileage to the other six days of the week.
No one is saying long runs aren't valuable or that you shouldn't do them. Liking them is a good thing.
I'm saying exactly that. For most runners, they shouldn't be doing long runs. Long runs are for professionals, or highly competitive college and high school runners. Everyone else should be allocating their mileage to the other six days of the week.
I think it was maybe in the 90s that I started seeing or hearing people say things like "I don't run a lot of miles but I do a 20 mile run every week so I don't need a lot of miles." The idea seemed to be that in one day you can compensate for not doing enough on the other six days. I do get the appeal of that approach for the "I don't have time to run" crowd who like the idea of cramming most of a week's work into a day or two but it's not something I'd advise doing.
There's a lot of variations on the long run among top runners. Kenny Moore would go over 30 miles once every 10 days. Moore said that Frank Shorter rarely went over 20 miles, but would often do that two days in a row. I remember reading that Seko would do a 60 mile weekend with four 15 mile runs. I tried doing that when I was in college, early 80's. It wasn't easy. I think a lot of it relates to where you live and the environment there. The Lydiard 22 mile run in Auckland happened to be the length of the loop.
I disagree with your first point. I train with guys running 2:2x in the marathon and a 10 mi tempo at even 10s slower than MP is not easy for them when dealing with fatigued legs deep into high volume weeks.
My experience is training with guys 10 minutes faster than you. Ten mile tempo runs at marathon pace is easy ... really easy.
not trying to invalidate your experience or anything, but I remember reading you've done your 8.5 miles loop record in 44 mins (so that's around your marathon pace then), which was tagged "very hard".
This question is directed at Malmo, though others can feel free to answer. Awhile back I read that one of his favorite workouts for a half marathon was 5 mins. hard 5 mins. easy for maybe an hour or so. I'm curious what effor...
My experience is training with guys 10 minutes faster than you. Ten mile tempo runs at marathon pace is easy ... really easy.
not trying to invalidate your experience or anything, but I remember reading you've done your 8.5 miles loop record in 44 mins (so that's around your marathon pace then), which was tagged "very hard".
That's not a tempo run. That's my daily morning loop. Wake up/get dressed/go out the door/run/shower/get breakfast. Feel is always circumstantial and relative scaled to all of my other morning runs. There was nothing that was actually "hard" about any of those morning runs. They were layups.
In 1985 NYCM I was 48:20 at 10 miles. It was very easy all the way to 18 miles. Got it Flintstone? Nice and easy.
Secondly, if you think I was training to run 5:11 pace for a marathon then you're out of your effing mind. That would be a complete waste of my time.
FWIW My "record" on that course was 43:30.
This post was edited 13 minutes after it was posted.
I'm saying exactly that. For most runners, they shouldn't be doing long runs. Long runs are for professionals, or highly competitive college and high school runners. Everyone else should be allocating their mileage to the other six days of the week.
I think it was maybe in the 90s that I started seeing or hearing people say things like "I don't run a lot of miles but I do a 20 mile run every week so I don't need a lot of miles." The idea seemed to be that in one day you can compensate for not doing enough on the other six days. I do get the appeal of that approach for the "I don't have time to run" crowd who like the idea of cramming most of a week's work into a day or two but it's not something I'd advise doing.
not trying to invalidate your experience or anything, but I remember reading you've done your 8.5 miles loop record in 44 mins (so that's around your marathon pace then), which was tagged "very hard".
That's not a tempo run. That's my daily morning loop. Wake up/get dressed/go out the door/run/shower/get breakfast. Feel is always circumstantial and relative scaled to all of my other morning runs. There was nothing that was actually "hard" about any of those morning runs. They were layups.
In 1985 NYCM I was 48:20 at 10 miles. It was very easy all the way to 18 miles. Got it Flintstone? Nice and easy.
Secondly, if you think I was training to run 5:11 pace for a marathon then you're out of your effing mind. That would be a complete waste of my time.
but wasn't it 1500m-enthusiast's point? Marathon pace (or anything close to it) for high-performing runners are not easy if not done on fresh legs. Yes, it's easy when you're well-rested, but when you're in the middle of a heavy training block, it wouldn't be that easy. Maybe you can still do it any day of the week, but on some days when you're particularly tired, it's gonna require some serious effort.
That's not a tempo run. That's my daily morning loop. Wake up/get dressed/go out the door/run/shower/get breakfast. Feel is always circumstantial and relative scaled to all of my other morning runs. There was nothing that was actually "hard" about any of those morning runs. They were layups.
In 1985 NYCM I was 48:20 at 10 miles. It was very easy all the way to 18 miles. Got it Flintstone? Nice and easy.
Secondly, if you think I was training to run 5:11 pace for a marathon then you're out of your effing mind. That would be a complete waste of my time.
but wasn't it 1500m-enthusiast's point? Marathon pace (or anything close to it) for high-performing runners are not easy if not done on fresh legs. Yes, it's easy when you're well-rested, but when you're in the middle of a heavy training block, it wouldn't be that easy. Maybe you can still do it any day of the week, but on some days when you're particularly tired, it's gonna require some serious effort.
That's some other guy's point, not mine. None of those morning runs took any kind of serious effort at all. There was a timed gut-check at one mile, usually 6:00-6:15 then settled into what ever pace felt right for the day. Never timed any other mile marks, I just ran. Maybe that's something you should learn to do. The subjective assessments were what I wrote down in my log each day, along with the time. Never bothered to calculate the per/mile pace until 20 years later, just for kicks.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
Each year i see younger people looking for easier and easier ways to live.
Electric bikes/scooters, velcro shoes, AI to do your homework and write for you in general, block printing, staying inside all day playing video games....enough!
