We changed the title of the thread to make it more descriptive and less judgemental. The title was initially "Washed Hoare doesn't make Australian 1500m team."
Will be really interesting to see what she can do given she’s always appeared to be more of a strength-based 1500m runner (given her results at 3k/5k and even NCAA cross-country back in the day).
I love Mike Smith as much as the next guy but lets not act like his group haven't suffered a fair share of injuries too. Woody,Drew Bosley and Nuir have all had injuries over the oast 18 months and it showed at USAs this year imo. Luis has also had a string of injuries over the same time period but runs for Guatemala meaning he has more time to work his way into fitness. Smith has Nico and Ritz has/had Yared as their starboys but outside of them, their pro athletes have pretty comparable track records imo
While injuries are a part of the game, the bigger tell is who is able to break the cycle of injury/underperformance/frustration? Assume everyone will have a rough stretch or two at some point in their careers. With Ritz & OAC, we've seen folks stuck in that loop for year after year. How Luis/Abdi progress back will be telling, but if you would have said 12-18 months ago that Bosley was 7th at USAs in the 10k, right between Woody and Clinger, that'd be quite the improvement curve.
The bigger news is that, according to your link, Jess Hull is entered in the 800!!!!!! Now that is interesting.
I don’t think I’ve seen her run many 800s? I’ve always thought she was more endurance- she’s got the WR I think in the 2k? And is decent in the 3k.. I’m not sure this is a good decision to double…
Georgia HB chose not to double due to the way the schedule is. And we saw how tired Jess was at the end of that DL run..
Could this impact her chance for a medal at the 1500m?
The bigger news is that, according to your link, Jess Hull is entered in the 800!!!!!! Now that is interesting.
I don’t think I’ve seen her run many 800s? I’ve always thought she was more endurance- she’s got the WR I think in the 2k? And is decent in the 3k.. I’m not sure this is a good decision to double…
Georgia HB chose not to double due to the way the schedule is. And we saw how tired Jess was at the end of that DL run..
Could this impact her chance for a medal at the 1500m?
1.58.58 is her PB. I don’t think this is a good decision for her…
The biggest things happening in this situation are the ones behind the scenes we can't see.
Yes on the surface you see Hoare run averagely in Silesia and then poorly in Pfungstadt and then you see Thomas run a PR yesterday and so the surface level thing to do is say "Hoare is cooked, Thomas is on the way up - easy".
But then ask yourself why Hoare is even needing to travel to Europe to run Silesia (and then P-stadt) when he's already run the standard, finished in the top 3 at their nationals, run the second fastest time by an Australian this season (a time over a second and a half faster than Spencer) and prior to going back to Europe for what turned out to be the trip that sunk him, had just run a sub 3.51 mile in the US.
I can tell you exactly what happened. Hoare probably wanted to just use those final 4 weeks after the SWM to recharge before Tokyo (as he should) but was told "you need to prove your fitness again so you'd better get to Europe and run". Now he's under this cloud of pressure to perform when all he wants to do is train and recharge. Goes to Silesia and runs averagely but not disastrously - "well that's not what we were hoping to see Oli", okay now needs to go to this small meet In Germany to show he's still good enough which is why he ran that race the way he did. I'd bet it was implied that he needed to run something close to his seasons best to prove his form because why else would you ever run that race that way? He's an experienced racer and not an idiot, I'd doubt he wanted to charge the opening laps of that the way he did.
Put it this way, that did not seem like a "prove your fitness" performance - it seemed like an "ultimatum" performance.
Australian team selection is on the same level as Kenyan and Ethiopian team selection. We chuckle about the corruption and ramshackle nature of the way things go down there, the reality is Australia is no different. I feel sorry for Hoare - it's been a tough 18 months for him in many respects. He deserves to be selected and isn't for "whatever" reason. Not good.
Maybe Olli should have stopped racing after running 3:31 at Rome Diamond League? Spencer & Thomas seemed so confident of their selections that they stopped racing at the end of July and didn't not race for the remainder of the qualifying window. AA should add a line in the selection policy to indicate that your manager's name will be part of the criteria or maybe that's what they mean by "Any additional factors deemed relevant by the Selection Committee"
No - because that would have sunk him anyway. Because behind the scenes there was "someone" chirping about "current form" and "showing capability" which was loaded towards their athletes favor. Also remember the caliber of race that Hoare can still run (DL level) probably worked against him - he would have been better off running 3.33/4 in Continental tour races and winning them/placing in them.
No - because that would have sunk him anyway. Because behind the scenes there was "someone" chirping about "current form" and "showing capability" which was loaded towards their athletes favor. Also remember the caliber of race that Hoare can still run (DL level) probably worked against him - he would have been better off running 3.33/4 in Continental tour races and winning them/placing in them.
I agree but losing at Sir Walter Miler and then the debacle at the German race. I feel full sympathy for Olli, but objectively things were unraveling him in terms of his form. Meanwhile, Thomas plainly is running better now.
I love Mike Smith as much as the next guy but lets not act like his group haven't suffered a fair share of injuries too. Woody,Drew Bosley and Nuir have all had injuries over the oast 18 months and it showed at USAs this year imo. Luis has also had a string of injuries over the same time period but runs for Guatemala meaning he has more time to work his way into fitness. Smith has Nico and Ritz has/had Yared as their starboys but outside of them, their pro athletes have pretty comparable track records imo
While injuries are a part of the game, the bigger tell is who is able to break the cycle of injury/underperformance/frustration? Assume everyone will have a rough stretch or two at some point in their careers. With Ritz & OAC, we've seen folks stuck in that loop for year after year. How Luis/Abdi progress back will be telling, but if you would have said 12-18 months ago that Bosley was 7th at USAs in the 10k, right between Woody and Clinger, that'd be quite the improvement curve.
Abdi being injured was the result of his fall in Paris. That's significantly different than running a chronically injured guy (after 6 months lay off) in two steeples, 3 days apart. I have posted here more than once on that, and it's borderline criminal.
Ollie ran 3:47 / 3:29 and won a tough comm games before bi-carb and on old school, not double threshold training.
He won the London DL and got maybe 6 top 3’s in stacked races including DL finals.
He legit ‘made it’ to almost the top of the sport. Next step was global medals.
This new wave has knocked him. Some injuries, self confidence issues and burnt out.
Rojo you love to mock him because he never progressed to getting medals like Kerr has. Plus some clear animosity from whatever happened between LRC and the swoosh during the Alberto days.
Rojo (ironically like Ritz?!) doesn’t realize it is absolutely brutal at the top of world 1500m racing!!
Finally the setup at OAC has been bad for a while. Ritz hasn’t adapted to more modern ways to get very fit. Endless specific work has worn these guys and girls down. The competition has surpassed the OAC boulder. OAC Europe the JV squad are showing them up!
All of the below should be making world finals.. not sat at home. Ollie, Yared, Mario, Morgan, Klecker, Monson, Markzevic, Sinta, Ramsden, Jacobs. That’s down to setup and coaching. The talent is there.. everyone of them has won an ncaa title (minus klecker who got robbed during Covid).
I think a huge component of the 1500 for coaches right now is trying to get everyone so fit for over distance races (3k/5k) that some athletes end up paying the price by not touching on elements that got them their contract in the first place. Adam Spencer at Wisco was running 800s the season that he ran the big pr at the DL. I’m not saying Oli is a 800/1500 guy but I do think mixing it up and not just hammering threshold doing longer workouts is beneficial.
i feel like Hobbs is similar. The faster he is in the 800 the stronger he is. The stronger he is over 3k/5k the slower he is over 800. Someone needs to figure out what Laros does and incorporate that type of work being he’s not only strong but he has world class finishing speed that’s been developed over the last two years.
Many people on another thread were suggesting that one reason why Yared ran poorly this season was his unnecessary underdistance focus on the 800 for GST. So you think it's the opposite for most 1500 guys?
I'm also not sure if Laros' kick is something that uniquely comes from his training. More likely it comes down to the innate speed and he's just now recently developed the fitness necessary to show it.
While injuries are a part of the game, the bigger tell is who is able to break the cycle of injury/underperformance/frustration? Assume everyone will have a rough stretch or two at some point in their careers. With Ritz & OAC, we've seen folks stuck in that loop for year after year. How Luis/Abdi progress back will be telling, but if you would have said 12-18 months ago that Bosley was 7th at USAs in the 10k, right between Woody and Clinger, that'd be quite the improvement curve.
Abdi being injured was the result of his fall in Paris. That's significantly different than running a chronically injured guy (after 6 months lay off) in two steeples, 3 days apart. I have posted here more than once on that, and it's borderline criminal.
The 800 isn't gonna affect Jess' 1500. The 800 heats are after the 1500 final. So the 1500 will likely affect her 800, but she's having a free shot at it
Maybe Olli should have stopped racing after running 3:31 at Rome Diamond League? Spencer & Thomas seemed so confident of their selections that they stopped racing at the end of July and didn't not race for the remainder of the qualifying window. AA should add a line in the selection policy to indicate that your manager's name will be part of the criteria or maybe that's what they mean by "Any additional factors deemed relevant by the Selection Committee"
No - because that would have sunk him anyway. Because behind the scenes there was "someone" chirping about "current form" and "showing capability" which was loaded towards their athletes favor. Also remember the caliber of race that Hoare can still run (DL level) probably worked against him - he would have been better off running 3.33/4 in Continental tour races and winning them/placing in them.
Thomas was running 3.32/3 races and spanked Hoare in London.
Hoare had one (very) good result this year, after Rome he ran like dogsh*t.
The 800 isn't gonna affect Jess' 1500. The 800 heats are after the 1500 final. So the 1500 will likely affect her 800, but she's having a free shot at it
It's amazing what pharmaceuticals can do to a mediocre, 27 year old , ausie runner in one year, isn't it?
Just because you dont think mental health matters doesnt mean it doesnt and i’m sure the line of educated people with expertise in this who disagree with your 1930s opinion is long. Lemme guess… you’ve never been anywhere close to world class in anything and have zero actual experience in what it’s like…
Hoare had more opportunities to prove himself this year than just about any athlete out there. He was shockingly given a lane at just about every DL race, despite continued strike outs. This one’s on Hoare. He should man up and admit as such. He’s just aging out. No shame.
On Running is already choking on these bloated and extended contracts that don’t have reductions - and it’s going to be the death of OAC. Nobody wants to run for them anymore because it just looks like a closet full of broken toys.
Generally, the shelf life of a male, world class middle distance runner is now about the same as the NFL. They’ve got about a 2-3 year window. Things are just too fast and wild out there. If you’re not on drugs, you can touch sub 3:28 and maybe hold onto that for 12-16 months - tops, before the next hungry young gun takes you out. Next year, it will be Laros trying and failing to recapture the flame he had in 2025.
No - because that would have sunk him anyway. Because behind the scenes there was "someone" chirping about "current form" and "showing capability" which was loaded towards their athletes favor. Also remember the caliber of race that Hoare can still run (DL level) probably worked against him - he would have been better off running 3.33/4 in Continental tour races and winning them/placing in them.
I agree but losing at Sir Walter Miler and then the debacle at the German race. I feel full sympathy for Olli, but objectively things were unraveling him in terms of his form. Meanwhile, Thomas plainly is running better now.
TL, he "lost" the SWM by 0.16 seconds who is a sub 13min 5000m guy. It's not like he got mopped up by some local hack in 3.59.
Yes the German race on the surface seems like a debacle. But again try and think about the extenuating circumstances behind it. Why was he even there to begin with? A lot of the guys running there were looking for final day qualifying times (like the winner, Berg). Honestly that performance seemed like a "f--k this I'm over it, death or glory" type effort which he should never be facing. More an emotional capitulation which is understandable if you believe in what was almost certainly going on behind the scenes.
Yes Thomas is running better now - but he's also just run a PR 2 weeks out from the World Champs. Is that a great thing? Time will tell on that. But these chasing of performances to "prove form and fitness" are just ridiculous to begin with and even more so because NONE of it is part of a documented or transparent selection process.
No mention of recent form and more focus on past championship performances. Hoare is the reigning Commonwealth Games gold medalist...
4.11.4 Where more than three athletes are eligible, the Selection Committee will consider the following factors in no particular order of priority: 4.11.4.1 Likelihood of a top-8 finish. 4.11.4.2 Whether an athlete qualified via performance standard or ranking. 4.11.4.3 Demonstrate high-level performance throughout the Qualification Period. 4.11.4.4 Proven ability to peak at major championships. 4.11.4.5 Proven ability to meet or exceed qualification-level performances during international competitions. 4.11.4.6 Participation in the 2025 Australian Track and Field Championships and the Summer Series (as defined) in their relevant event(s). 4.11.4.7 Any additional factors deemed relevant by the Selection Committee in consultation with the National Federation General Manger – High Performance.
Ok.
But if someone leads on 4.11.4.1 "likelihood of a top 8 finish" - is it over? Or do you look at all of the things below that?
Rojo you love to mock him because he never progressed to getting medals like Kerr has. Plus some clear animosity from whatever happened between LRC and the swoosh during the Alberto days.
Rojo (ironically like Ritz?!) doesn’t realize it is absolutely brutal at the top of world 1500m racing!!
When have I mocked him?
I correctly realized that when Nuguse beat him couple times in 2023, that he needed to leave the group as he'd never beat him again in that setup. It was a bold statement and has been proven to be true.
But I most certainly realize how tough it is in the 1500. He's still probably one of the top 20 1500 guys in the world but if you aren't 7 we aren't talking about you on LRC. There's a reason why so many Africans go straight to the marathon when they realize they aren't gold medal contenders on the track.
I honestly feel bad for him. He tries to promote the sport, is pretty darn good but no longer really relevant. But mock him? Far from it. I went out of my way to change the title of this thread simply because I thought the OP was being unnecessarily mean to call him wash (and normally I just let free speech but free speech but there is no reason to be a dick).