Is Josh Hoey an idiot?

Well said.

Blame lies with me. I thought he was ready run low 1:42 from the front and finish top three even if he tided up a little, so that's the plan we went with. Unfortunately there were just three athletes better today, it's that simple.

If anyone out there thought a 16 year old was going to roll over the top of nearly everyone, you're a way better judge than me.

So good to see DB back running fast again. Stories like that are great for our sport. Congrats to DB, Cooper (freak) and Bryce on making the team, and everyone else in the field, especially Harris who has finally knocked off his PR from 2018 after battling back from injury.

The US is finally where it should be in this event. Best US 800m race since the 1984 Olympic Trials.

JR

AIU is coming out for your boys. Maybe they're already there... but you think it'll all your genius coaching, right?!

Are you sure it was a "literal" 25 meter lead?

While Hoey’s first lap was way too fast and clearly it showed over the last hundred, he’d been successfully pulling this strategy (or a very similar one) for the past year with wild success.

The difference only needed to be very small for him to have podiumed or possibly even won. This is probably the best team the US has ever sent to an 800m at a world championship, and an unfortunate day to show the holes in his strategy, but so it goes. Not idiotic, but room to learn.

It has been incredible watching Hoey for the past year, and with his amazing high school times, I don’t find him shady in the slightest. Talent doesn’t go away.

Luktenhaus - we haven’t seen something like this since Jim Ryun. Insanity.

He isn´t an idiot but he made the same mistakes as Jakob did in the 1500m final in Paris:

1. Was frontrunning from start to finish. He gives his competitors an advantage of at least 1.5 seconds. I disagree with THs post #3 that it is OK to front run a 800m. I ran the 800m both in national and international competitions as a veteran and I never dreamed of frontrunning before I could go all in towards the finish line.

2. And he ran the first 400m too fast as Jakob did in Paris and as pointed out by TH.

3. He possibly also ran too fast from the 500m mark (as Jakob did in Paris) so he hadn´t enough left for the finish (ran himself into the ground).

So he (and Nuguse) got a useful lesson this weekend. Nuguse hopefully also learned that he must save energy in the heats, especially when he races to days in a row.

I mean, like, is Cole Hocker just really good at racing?

You have your Hoey and your Kessler and whatnot. The Italian Ciabatta. Nuguse, really. Even Fisher was verklempt. And do the Strand love.

But does Cole just... win?

I mostly agree with this, although I'd argue he wasn't a fully effective rabbit for Cooper, who only had a target to chase but minimal drafting benefit from the 1:42 pace.

I think Hoey's calculation based off his fitness and previous results was that he'd at least make the team with a fast front running strategy. However, he overcooked it a little bit in the first lap, didn't quite account for the fatigue from rounds, and came up against more 1:42s than he expected.

You mean the same Hocker who hasn't won a 1500 since Paris? He had to run a 5k dawdle to win.

I think you were right Coach, to be fair. The problems as they were mounted up. I don’t think 24.1 was outrageous like some, but 25.1 for split two is just too much. Back to back 26.0s or so and I bet Josh does it. He would’ve had to fight off some challenges but I bet he has the strong close we’ve mostly seen. The race probably breaks right for Hoppel in this circumstance but it’s much more crowded and messy for the others.

I actually don’t think the idiocy was his tactics at USATF.

The idiocy was being too buried to execute those tactics. Dude was cooked while the smarter guys ran PBs and SBs.

I laughed when fanboys got excited about Hoey “nearly running an AR” in workouts at his private track.😆😆😆

Save it for the race.

”Don’t run your best race in practice” has never been more true than here.

Yep, that's exactly what Gault said in the podcast. Nobody saw Cooper's 1:42 coming and if it hadn't happened, Hoey would be in, even with running out of steam at the end.

exactly correct.

Nuguse went into the 1500 with a terrible plan, and some of us discussed that night before he did it.

Hoey had the right plan, just didn't execute it correct.

People talk about Ingy losing paris because he ran 54.9 instead of something like 55.3. Hoey going 24.1/49.2 was far more dangerous. 50-50.2 probably close to idea. 24.5/49.7 still has a chance to work.

And honestly, when it's all said and done, he possible could have executed perfectly and lost. 1:42.5 doesn't even get in yesterday. He lost to 3 incredible beasts.

Hoey has nothing to be ashamed of.

I hope his time comes. but those three guys who beat him are no joke. Not a fluke.

JR, thank you for responding here. Curious, what splits were you hoping to see?

Coach, no shame in your approach at all. Your athlete has had nothing short of a miracle season by every objective measure. Your strategy was completely sensible given Josh's fitness and the competition. Sometimes outside variables are just totally out of our control no matter what we do or plan to do. I congratulate you on being such a good coach and helping Josh and his brothers pursue their dreams. I hope that Josh can win the DL Final in Zurich, but even if he doesn't, your athlete has put together a home run season and will continue to improve and see even better results in the future.

Sorry, and extra sorry since his coach is in this thread, but honestly so happy to see Hoey miss the team. I still don't believe he's not on the sauce.

This post by the OP upsets me. And I'm the one who never apologizes for stating the truth.

But this thread title and first post is just mean.

Is he an idiot? No. Front runnign doesn' to work?

He likes to run fast and front run. That's how he won the world indoor title, USAs indoors, etc.

He just didn't execute it perfectly. He's a 142 flat runner with a rabbit so running 143.1 without one isn't horrible.

The reality is Hopel ran 1:42.49 for 3rd and a time Hoey has only beaten twice in his life. That's the 8th best 3rd place time in the history of the world. Hoey ran 1:42.47 for 3rd in Stockholm but that was with a rabbit.

If anything, as someone who has seen Hoey's career stagnate and then see him progress as he has this year, I've become a fan of Hoey and was hoping he would make the team. I wouldn't go as far as to call him an idiot, but seeing him go out in 49.2 was definitely considering everyone that was queuing up behind him, even before Luktenhaus was in the picture. He'll certainly be back, but as a fan of his I'm sure we were all hoping he'd execute in a similar way that he has all year, which includes decent closing ability on the home stretch after a hard first 400. I think he let his emotion get the better of him, and I'm sure he will learn from this year being a favorite and will have a even bigger chip on his shoulder in the years to come. He's only 25.

He front ran to US and world titles indoors.

I think what we saw yesterday was akin to what Jakob did in the Paris 1500m final when he dropped that 54 second lap - he got excited, and went out at too hot of pace. Learning experience.

Your whole existence upsets me. And get help for your alcoholism.