This is one of the funniest threads I've ever read. The level of sockpuppeting is magnificent.
I ❤️ Mike Rohl Barrett Dahl
Amen. I think Mike Rohl is Barrett Dahl and it's hilarious that someone is trying to warn Mike Rohl about BD. Come to think of it, how do we know the person warning Mike isn't also BD? 🤣🤣
Of course you wouldn't drive from Ruidoso to Alamogordo. That is almost 60 miles. Besides Ruidoso isn't high enough to do hi low training that is why Cloudcroft is a good option. it is 25 minutes down the mountain. It really is the greatest disparity in elevation in the country that I could find. Anyways, we were thinking about driving over to Ruidoso for a workout just for a change of scenery. would you like to meet up for a run or bike? (I ride too). We are also considering doing the Alien Chase in Roswell. We i did it years again and it sounds like fun. You can email if you would like. We love new Mexico as a place to visit.
Peace
Mike Rohl
Would love to. My wife and I drive down to alamogordo every weekend to eat at del taco and use their public library. That's where we are now. We are heading back home to ruidoso in 30mins.
Roswell is always fun and friendly folks there. Flat as board though and just feels running on the flat ground. Idk how old you and Michelle are but my wife April and I are in our upper 50s. I am retired military and she does online work for Amazon and assist with the boys and girls club of Ruidoso. We are both heavily involved with the city council here in the mountains and have assisted with many runs and triathlon events near the lake.
I will shoot you and email and would love to do a double date with you guys at the steakhouse here in Rui.
Just let it go. "Fast time" is just another one of the 430milers sock puppet accounts. He has used several in this thread already, including:
430 is just one of the coaches on here that is discreet
Brian Blankenship (created 2/27/25 - 2 posts)
Addy das (created 4/26/25 - 3 posts)
Prediktor (created 5/2/25 - 1 post)
exrunnerboy,, (created 5/9/25 - 2 posts)
the430miler has NEVER been a college coach
Fan out west 1 (created 5/24/25 - 1 post)
Lets use common sense (created 5/25/25 - 1 post)
Fast time (created 5/8/25 - 1 post)
Owners, get this weird schizophrenic crap off your site. It's just derailing a good thread.
In my honest humble opinion, you can't really feel any difference unless the altitude drop is above 3,000 feet. Dropping less than that is pretty hard for anyone's lungs to identify. Much less your legs.
There use to be some science out there that said your shouldn't drop in altitude fast with your training, kinda opposite of mountaineer syndrome. What happens to that science?
Owners, get this weird schizophrenic crap off your site. It's just derailing a good thread.
In my honest humble opinion, you can't really feel any difference unless the altitude drop is above 3,000 feet. Dropping less than that is pretty hard for anyone's lungs to identify. Much less your legs.
There use to be some science out there that said your shouldn't drop in altitude fast with your training, kinda opposite of mountaineer syndrome. What happens to that science?
Amen. I think Mike Rohl is Barrett Dahl and it's hilarious that someone is trying to warn Mike Rohl about BD. Come to think of it, how do we know the person warning Mike isn't also BD? 🤣🤣
We have a local guy in Orem who leads our running club and was posting under byu123. Some guy on here started accusing him of being someone else and impersonating a Mormon. He even posted a video from a byu meet and the spammer still said it was garrett dahl doing it. Just ignore those messages.
Amen. I think Mike Rohl is Barrett Dahl and it's hilarious that someone is trying to warn Mike Rohl about BD. Come to think of it, how do we know the person warning Mike isn't also BD? 🤣🤣
We have a local guy in Orem who leads our running club and was posting under byu123. Some guy on here started accusing him of being someone else and impersonating a Mormon. He even posted a video from a byu meet and the spammer still said it was garrett dahl doing it. Just ignore those messages.
Thanks for your insight. I stand corrected. Have a nice day!
There are a few examples of pro teams in the united states who, on occasion, will live in the mountains and do their base mileage up high, and then creep down to a lower community once or twice per week for speed work on a local track. I am here to tell you that, atleast from a physiological perspective and an economic perspective, it's simply not worth the time and money.
An outstanding young man I went to school with, upon graduation, immediately signed with Zap Fitness. As you all know, Zap Fitness is a profession running team based in Blue Ridge, North Carolina. These guys train in the Blue Ridge Mountains northeast of Ashville, and twice per week creep down to Charlotte for speedwork. A good 3.5-4k drop in altitude. A good hour drive. He spent 2 years running professionally for Zap. He was very instrumental in starting their annual camp for prospective world class development runners, but all of their long term accomplishments as a pro group remained flaccid.
Another example would be Dark Sky, which is the Professional team of Under Armor. They are based in Flagstaff. Once per week, this squad will creep down to Sedona which is a good 2k lower in altitude. A good hour drive.
Railroad Athletics and the Park City crowd of elites/wannabe elite runners are another perfect scenario. Some of them do virtual coaching/training, so there's a lil bit more leeway with that group.
Our friends with the OnCLOUD group in Boulder Colorado really do not have that luxury. There is really nowhere within atleast a 300 mile radius that will allow then to drop below 3100 ft. They really have no choice but to do ALL if their workouts at altitude. You know what? It shows. Big time.
The young man I know that ran for Zap Fitness, his times did not significantly improve from d1 to professional level of competition. Dark Sky (the flagstaff group) seem to be remaining stagnant on the American and international stage. Edwin Kurgat runs for Dark Sky. Although he did indeed win the carlsbad 5k a couple years back, he also has shown no linear improvement since college. His arch nemesis Wesley kiptoo (Kenyan with gloves) trains high year round and is making breathtaking feats left and right.
The team that stands out is, once again, OnCLOUD. Dathan's group is environmentally FORCED to stay up high simply because of geographic isolation and elevational parameters. Yet all of you should stop and OBSERVE their results. Their athletes continue to shake up the world scene with national records and medal. Neguse, Monsoon, Obiri, and even the trickle down training effects on other non boulder based ONCloud athletes like KY Robinson who medaled at world indoors last winter. Dare I say......intentionally moving around on a weekly basis for speedwork is simply overrated.
Some of you may feel like your workouts are easier when you drop 2k in altitude. Your coach may even see that your intervals are faster when you drop and he wants your legs moving a tad faster. However, that's apparently and obviously NOT what the statistics show, result wise. The more you stay up high, the easier it is to race down low. Point being, you are not doing yourself any physiological favors by driving to Sedona or Charlotte and making your workouts easier. If you want to do yourself a favor, don't take the easy way out. It's your body, and it's your gas money.
OnCloud has got it all figured out. Their coach is no newbie. They have taken advantage of the terrain and placement that Creator has given them, and none of their runners are taking the easy way out and escaping to the lowlands. Here in San Antonio, my team also does NOT have the option of creeping up and down elevation wise twice per week. That option isnt available, and we've done just fine with what we have.
We should all strive each and every single solitary day to be more like the OnCloud group. It's your gas money, and aren't doing your running career ANY favors by putting miles on your car just so your legs and lungs can very briefly breath some thicker air.
Results speak loudly. It's just not worth it.
It's one thing to voice your opinion and then back it up with SOME knowledge, but you pretty much took a dump on your credibility by talking about a few runners (I'm not familiar who "Neguse" or "Monsoon" are), some random "outstanding young man" you went to school with, and then dropped Ky Robinson's name and his coach (I guess you forgot his name- Dathan Ritzenhein who is regarded as one of the best U.S. distance runners ever), all the while claiming that training at altitude mixed with 1-2 sessions at lower elevations doesn't work (except for OnCloud, which is actually On Athletics Club-OAC). The funny thing is that you never include yourself in this lame-a$$ theory (did you ever run and or train at altitude?), then you go on to wrongfully claim there is no physiological benefit to this type of training. Do I dare throw out a couple names that have done and currently live and train via High-Low? I'll give you the first names and see if you know any of them (I doubt you do). In no specific order: Jakob, Seb, Josh, Said, Matthew, Grant, Nico, Mo, Soufiane (EL Bakkali), Cheptegei, Kipchoge, just to name a few, and the ones who aren't doing it will be within a short period of time.
It's all about building aerobic capacity through Red Blood Cell development (living and training high), while dropping down to lower elevations to increase higher intensity workloads for a longer duration.
It's one thing to voice your opinion and then back it up with SOME knowledge, but you pretty much took a dump on your credibility by talking about a few runners (I'm not familiar who "Neguse" or "Monsoon" are), some random "outstanding young man" you went to school with, and then dropped Ky Robinson's name and his coach (I guess you forgot his name- Dathan Ritzenhein who is regarded as one of the best U.S. distance runners ever), all the while claiming that training at altitude mixed with 1-2 sessions at lower elevations doesn't work (except for OnCloud, which is actually On Athletics Club-OAC). The funny thing is that you never include yourself in this lame-a$ theory (did you ever run and or train at altitude?), then you go on to wrongfully claim there is no physiological benefit to this type of training. Do I dare throw out a couple names that have done and currently live and train via High-Low? I'll give you the first names and see if you know any of them (I doubt you do). In no specific order: Jakob, Seb, Josh, Said, Matthew, Grant, Nico, Mo, Soufiane (EL Bakkali), Cheptegei, Kipchoge, just to name a few, and the ones who aren't doing it will be within a short period of time.
It's all about building aerobic capacity through Red Blood Cell development (living and training high), while dropping down to lower elevations to increase higher intensity workloads for a longer duration.
Since altitude training in general is way overrated, I pretty much am in a position to fully adhere to everything in the 430 milers proposition.
Since elevation is overrated, then obviously hurrying down lower to train is also nothing but a snake oil being sold by a charlatan.
Run where you are not cold and hurting. It's not and more complicated than that.
Are you saying that intentionally driving to the lowlands is a zero sum game?
Mentallity > physicallity?
Exactly amigo. I highly doubt anyone competing at the prefontaine classic plays the high low shift every week. They stay high to reap the most physiological benefits.
As of now I have not purchased a plane ticket for that event, the pre classic. I went last year when jakob eaglebritson was running. He is much SHORTER in real life than I thought. He's listed at 6 foot 1. Looks more like 5 foot 5.
On the flip side, I have been to Camarillo Ca a few times for observational and recruiting purposes and have seen nico young in person. He is a GIANT. there's no way in heck that he is 5'11. Depending on what type of socks I'm wearing, I'm either 5'11 or 6'0. Nico is atleast 1 entire head taller than me. He is huge in real life and looks everybit as tall as Usain bolt. Nico looks about 6 foot 4 or 5.
Again, someone's heights can be greatly exaggerated depending on how thick of socks they have on. I also think that how they appear on a TV or computer screen can be distorted or psychologically deceiving. You see, I've been around long enough to know that it is our mentality which dictates our physicality. Our brain is what influences how someone physically appears. It's just like training and racing. We all have a physical limitation, but our brains can actually defy science and OVERRIDE that biological limitation and SURPASS the barriers that we are structurally limited to in regards to our fate. Having a perfect mentality can deliberately defy your physiological fate.
This is yet another example of how MENTALITY > PHYSICALITY
Question asked at 6:32 pm. Long response ready and sent at 6:40 pm.
If you're going to respond to your own question, take more time to post your response so it's not so obvious.
Question asked at 6:32 pm. Long response ready and sent at 6:40 pm.
If you're going to respond to your own question, take more time to post your response so it's not so obvious.
What?
If you dont want to read the training advice I put on here, then don't read it. Make the choice to only read material that you agree with and that aligns with whatever training philosophy you were raised on.
Typically, its normal people to be attached to the coaching methods they were raised on, but running is an evolving sport. Even in the midst of clinging to the beliefs that were instilled in us as a youth by our 1st track coach, it us always important to be able to avoid and adapt to other training methods and ideologies; unless you want to get left behind.
It's like this not just with running, but in other walks of life as well. Kudos and good fortune to you
Since altitude training in general is way overrated, I pretty much am in a position to fully adhere to everything in the 430 milers proposition.
Since elevation is overrated, then obviously hurrying down lower to train is also nothing but a snake oil being sold by a charlatan.
Run where you are not cold and hurting. It's not and more complicated than that.
Kind words.
I don't know if middle school in your area is 6th thru 8th or 7th thru 10th or what. When I was growing up in Oklahoma we didn't have middle school. We had Jr high that was 7 thru 9, abd then 10 thru 12 was at the highschool. I believe the system has changed since then.
Either way, you are doing the correct thing with the kids you coach by keeping it simple. Especially at that age. Training and racing should be simple, fun, and effective.
Let me know if you have any other questions or commentary regarding the training of adolescents.
It's one thing to voice your opinion and then back it up with SOME knowledge, but you pretty much took a dump on your credibility by talking about a few runners (I'm not familiar who "Neguse" or "Monsoon" are), some random "outstanding young man" you went to school with, and then dropped Ky Robinson's name and his coach (I guess you forgot his name- Dathan Ritzenhein who is regarded as one of the best U.S. distance runners ever), all the while claiming that training at altitude mixed with 1-2 sessions at lower elevations doesn't work (except for OnCloud, which is actually On Athletics Club-OAC). The funny thing is that you never include yourself in this lame-a$ theory (did you ever run and or train at altitude?), then you go on to wrongfully claim there is no physiological benefit to this type of training. Do I dare throw out a couple names that have done and currently live and train via High-Low? I'll give you the first names and see if you know any of them (I doubt you do). In no specific order: Jakob, Seb, Josh, Said, Matthew, Grant, Nico, Mo, Soufiane (EL Bakkali), Cheptegei, Kipchoge, just to name a few, and the ones who aren't doing it will be within a short period of time.
It's all about building aerobic capacity through Red Blood Cell development (living and training high), while dropping down to lower elevations to increase higher intensity workloads for a longer duration.
Thanks for the comments.
I am a runner based in San Antonio, Texas. Not only do I run there but coach as well. 2 weeks ago I ran 1:57 in the 800 at the air force invitational in Colorado springs. I am not sure what the conversion is, as that's always debatable anyways. Either way, I'm getting in better form. I also operate a youtube page under my legal name, Barrett Dahl.
In your post, you speak about acceptance and credibility. Neither one of those things are why I post here. I do not post here to find acceptance, friends, credibility, or respect. I am also not here to find a significant other. I am really only here for 2 reasons.
1. To educate others on training and racing and teach them what I was taught by my coach.
2. So that others may READ my posts and that I "unlock" certain deep feelings and emotions that they have had for many years concerning a brotherhood for THEM to belong to. Not for me to belong to. But so that THEY may find reverence and fellowship in my training after reading my post, and that it enlightens them with nostalgia about how training and racing used to be. I had a very good coach and I take very great in that. However, I also know for a fact that what he taught me was not the only one in the world who was educated or training this way. Once someone from my generation and similar coaching background reads my posts, it really does make THEM feel at home. It really does make THEM feel loved. It's not about me. It's never been about me. It's about making THEM feel deep internal comfort by knowing they have found someone with old school training philosophies.
These are the only 2 reasons I post here or contribute. It's not for my benefit or gain. I do not get anything positive from posting here, outside my heart knowing that I have educated a young man or young, or made them feel "at home" or in a heavenly nostalgia state. Now, that being said, I still respond to questions to the best of my ability and give appropriate feedback; but I'm really not on here to debate others or go back and forth with others who do not come from the same type of coaching background that I do. In other words, I'm pretty set in ways about how I train myself, how I train my own son, how I train the kids here at the college. You see, there us a certain way we do things here, and a certain way that I "orchestrate" my life around coaching, competing, and parenting. That way is pretty much set in stone. It's here for me to PRACTICE, me to SHARE, and for you and others to grasp, learn, I hale, and reap the psychologically brain boosting benefits from. Mentality is what steers the future of our physicality.
Having the immense ammount knowledge that I have about coaching, racing, and parenting; I authentically feel it is my "human responsibility" to share my knowledge on here in order to educated others. Letsrun is just one if the many website venues where I do this. It is a public library of information where I provide free coaching and life to others. You know, when it really boils down to it, it would be an incredible travesty and moral CRIME for me to not educate others on this message board and other online platforms.
Look, I'm very intricately involved in the collegiate coaching world. The overwhelming majority of other college coaches veer far away from site due to obvious reasons (it not being worth their time/effort/compensation.) But you also have to really stop and take into account that other coaches do not possess the general carnal knowledge that I have. They simply don't know as much as I do and aren't as passionate about the sport as I am. So, theoretically, them not teaching others on running forums really isn't doing society as much of a "disservice" as compared to me not teaching others, because other coaches ultimately do not have as much knowledge as I do anyways. They dont have much to sacrifice by not servicemen their community. I do. That's the travesty.
Wisdom and knowledge is power, and coaching others about running is a tremendous talent that i have. Not only is it a talent, but it is a naturally born, god given GIFT of mine. As steve prefontaine once famously said......
"To give anything less than thy own best, is to sacrifice the GIFT".
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I was driving from Roswell to Tucson this past December and stopped in Ruidoso and it's such a nice little town. Went to White Sands NP near Alamogordo and wow that place is neat
Also it's 19 miles from south Flagstaff to the Bootlegger Picnic Area where one of the best trails in Sedona is located. Slower speed limit going down Hwy 89 to get to it but a beautiful and short drive down Oak Creek Canyon