i honestly think kip keino's race in mexico city might be the greatest middle distance performance of all time. to run 3:34 at 7300' altitude in 1968 is completely absurd. there was nothing jim could do, he ran a great race too.
Advantage of altitude for an athlete who lived at altitude and likely benefited from a blood transfusion before the race when he went into hospital.
Where do you get the idea he was "overtraining" or his career was "cut short"? There was no such thing as "pro" and nowhere to go. He set WRs at 880, 1500m and mile. In another era he wold have advanced to the Munich 1500 final.
Just look at videos of him run. He was Secretariat. He was a tremendous machine.
right , look at him run , there is nothing like id
Dusseldorf on youtube last 300
that is not distance running
coe and ryan are the two
coe running 400 relay, there is nothing like that either
this new kenyan 141 and who knows maybe 326... might be in the same league
snell wasn't in that league with 400m...
so you have 2 guys in goat
You would have more credibility if you knew his name is Ryun, not "Ryan".
He fell at Munich. It was also in a qf, where the athletes aren't racing to win but to qualify. The only time Keino genuinely beat Ryun was at Mexico, which was at altitude.
Ryun definitely didn't bomb in Mexico City. Despite losing time due to mono and the IOC barring non-altitude athletes from training at altitude more than a month in 1968, he ran among the best ever 1500m times at altitude ever for a non-altitude athlete (3:37). He crushed Kip Keino at sea level multiple times before that and beat him so badly in one of those races in the last 300m that the commentator says that Keino had given up the idea of running the 1500m in 1968. No other non-altitude athletes medaled at 1500m and up in 1968.
Altitude distorted all the results - from the sprints to the jumps and the distance events. No one truly knew before the Games just how much altitude would play a part. You are correct. The sea level athletes mostly didn't stand a chance of winning in anything from the 1500 up.
He fell at Munich. It was also in a qf, where the athletes aren't racing to win but to qualify. The only time Keino genuinely beat Ryun was at Mexico, which was at altitude.
Mexico City, not Mexico.
Colloquialism not part of your vernacular? Or do you think you are contributing to an encyclopaedia?
If I recall...mary decker held every American record from 800m to 10000m at the same time. And set 17 world records. She held every WORLD record from 800m to 10000 meters at the same time!!!!I would say Ryan is not in her league at all, if we are talking any gender. Not even the conversation.
Can you I imagine hoppel or Fischer holding world records at 800-10000.
Maybe she was doping way back then i dont know, but so was her competition and she held all the records. So clearly the goat among goats.
Ryun, not "Ryan".
Both Ryan and Ryun are not in the same galaxy as mary decker. I struggle to think of another athlete that accomplished what she did, in any sport. People here are just so young they only know her from falling in 1984. Every WR on the track at the same time. Astonishing. Fun facts- also won USA USSR dual at 14 y/o. Also won Milrose at 15 y/o and 38 y/o.
i honestly think kip keino's race in mexico city might be the greatest middle distance performance of all time. to run 3:34 at 7300' altitude in 1968 is completely absurd. there was nothing jim could do, he ran a great race too.
That 3:34 translates to a 3:27 at sea level on Tinman’s calculator. Ryun’s 3:37.8 translates to a 3:30 on the nose. And, yet, we are to believe it was an inferior result because they finally started testing and it’s the first time he was off stimulants?
Ryun definitely didn't bomb in Mexico City. Despite losing time due to mono and the IOC barring non-altitude athletes from training at altitude more than a month in 1968, he ran among the best ever 1500m times at altitude ever for a non-altitude athlete (3:37). He crushed Kip Keino at sea level multiple times before that and beat him so badly in one of those races in the last 300m that the commentator says that Keino had given up the idea of running the 1500m in 1968. No other non-altitude athletes medaled at 1500m and up in 1968.
Well, Bodo Tümmler medaled.
1. Keino 3:34.91
2. Ryun 3:37.89
3. Tummler 3:39.08
Takes a little bit of your shine off of Ryun’s performance, perhaps. Having watched the race video many times, I do suspect that Ryun could have run at least a second faster had he approached the race with…an “illogical” belief in what was possible.
Bekele is the best of all time. Every single person you say this about needs an *if clean* though.
Best 5k, best 10k, second best marathon while out of his prime, xc champ, great championship runner. I mean what else can you want? Biggest stages, time trials, mix of distances, long career.
Ryun definitely didn't bomb in Mexico City. Despite losing time due to mono and the IOC barring non-altitude athletes from training at altitude more than a month in 1968, he ran among the best ever 1500m times at altitude ever for a non-altitude athlete (3:37). He crushed Kip Keino at sea level multiple times before that and beat him so badly in one of those races in the last 300m that the commentator says that Keino had given up the idea of running the 1500m in 1968. No other non-altitude athletes medaled at 1500m and up in 1968.
I knew he had had mono, but I didn’t realize the rest, especially the part about training at altitude. Makes the result even more impressive. So altitude training was considered a PED as well, eh?
Ryun definitely didn't bomb in Mexico City. Despite losing time due to mono and the IOC barring non-altitude athletes from training at altitude more than a month in 1968, he ran among the best ever 1500m times at altitude ever for a non-altitude athlete (3:37). He crushed Kip Keino at sea level multiple times before that and beat him so badly in one of those races in the last 300m that the commentator says that Keino had given up the idea of running the 1500m in 1968. No other non-altitude athletes medaled at 1500m and up in 1968.
I knew he had had mono, but I didn’t realize the rest, especially the part about training at altitude. Makes the result even more impressive. So altitude training was considered a PED as well, eh?
All of this well prior to the paradigm shifter in Epo. Too bad Ryun didn’t have Epo. He would’ve won… just like Lance Armstrong.
Zatopek baby. 3 golds. 5k, 10k, and marathon. Will never be repeated.
Ah yes. During the era where (checks notes) 75 people knew how to run a 5k globally.
Yes, 75 years ago the global athletics landscape was markedly different. But let's not pretend Zatopek was speed walking in a cane and top-hat. Dude was sub-14, sub-29 in positively medieval training gear/environments. He went 29:17/14:06 in 4 days to win in Helsinki (73 years ago!!!)
He’s not even the best of his era. That’s Kip Keino.
I would vote for Ryun as the “best 1500/mile runner of his era” (let’s call it ‘65 through ‘74). If we change it to “greatest middle and long distance runners of all time,” then I definitely prefer Keino to Ryun, with his two OG golds + 1 silver, and his 3k & 5k WRs. He was also more consistently at the top of his game for ~8 years than Ryun was.