Trans persons are human, they deserve inclusion and respect. They DO NOT deserve sports. Trans women have the right to exist, trans women DO NOT have the right to compete in sports with cisgender women
Okay, so they can use the bathroom of their comfort, right? And people should happily grant them the dignity of their gender and pronouns, yes?
Trans women are women. She just lost to a faster woman.
If trans women are women then you don't need to add the modifier "trans" to women.
Obviously, even you don't believe this BS.
If male athletes are athletes, then you don't need to add the modifier "male" to athletes. Or does this make perfect sense and you just forget that adjectives and descriptors exist?
No periods, can't bare children, can never be a Queen, Duchess, Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader, can never go to an all girls school, can never sing in an all girls choir, can never be a sister, mom , granny, aunt,...........the first lady,
INCORRECT!.
This teen has been singing in all girls choir for years, and she has won multiple awards with her high school acapella group.
I bet there are more trans girls on girls choir than on high school sports teams. The ones on choir do not make the headlines because no one accuses them of having unfair advantage.
As for all girls schools, there are already women's colleges that accept trans women
It's complicated. It's simple. It's tough to face and tough to ignore. When reduced to absurdly simple terms as you see here I'm like "Well, yeah, of course its just some lame-o's who just arent cutting it with their given...tools, taking cheap advantage of a convenient new trick. Declare that you are a female and go for the wins, trophies and, yes, buck! But then youre faced with the recent medical and political buzz and business about trans and the various other gender issues. It gets complicated, deep, and, for some of us, confusing, but the upshot is that it is no easy matter to sort this out without a mountain of disscusion debate and rancor.
I dont pretend to be sorting anything out but the strands of my own confusion. Proponents on different sides of the matter make strong intelligent statements with corroborating data and evidence. But try as I might I keep finding myself in the camp of those who see the --on the one simple plain of racing and competition--people, guys mainly, who are benefitting (not trying to separate the honest and true, the sheep from the goats, people from the opportunists) makes me stuck on the side that agrees with the reductio people--a gate has been opened to opportunistic wanabe winners who will do a dishonest deed to get a slice of glory. Please prove me wrong!
I cannot prove you wrong.
It is all about the priority. If you think the most important objective in sports is to prevent undeserving person from winning, then you are absolutely right. It's more important to drain the bathwater than saving a few children who might be thrown away. But if you think one baby thrown away is one too many, then you need a more nuanced solution.
Supposed there is substance that enhances one's athletic performance. Allowing this substance in competition gives some athletes unfair advantage. But there are also other people who cannot compete without this substance. If the most important goal is to prevent an undeserving winner, then this substance should be banned.
However, the sports world figured out this dilemma by giving therapeutic use exemption to those who have medical need. TUE is not perfect and it can be abused. But it achieved some balance between competitive fairness and inclusion. The same can be achieved in this issue.
Dude are you serious Cockrell commented that? So she’d be completely fine with a biological male taking an Olympic spot from her? Come on man, I’m laughing right now.
Cockrell was about 4 sec faster than Telfer at the time she wrote that comment. So she felt no threat from Telfer... or any other trans athlete. If there is a trans athlete who is faster than her. she might change her opinion.
D2? Next we're going to complain about a trans player winning a pickup basketball game at the Y. Get serious.
D2, D3, NAIA, high school, middle school; it does not matter. You wanna wear a dress and make up with your junk flopping around underneath on a beautiful spring day, you do you. No judgment there. But stay the F out of girl's competitive sports when you have the distinct advantages of a biological male.
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Why are some people so obsessed with toilets issues?
They have been, are, and will always be men, medically and biologically and any other way you call it. That is a fact. They don't belong in girl's/women's sports. locker rooms or restrooms no matter how they dress or what they call themselves.
I am all in favour of not allowing trans women to compete in the female category.
But the obsession some people have with toilets is just ridiculous. You want to force this trans man to use the female restrooms, just because he was born with XX chromosomes. Do you understand how absurd your proposal is, and how uncomfortable this might become if someone reports him for using the "correct" (female) toilets as you want to mandate him? How do you enforce it, mandatory DNA test before going to the toilets?
Why not just have some basic common sense and let people live their life?
LMFAO, the people on this sight are using this issue like it was Thanksgiving Turkey. And its so funny because in the history of athletics esp when it was authorized to compete internationally from 2004 - 2022 not one trans runner athlete ever won a damn thing in all the Olympics or World Championships, or Diamond Leagues, or Marathons or Road Races "ever" in the entire world, so Letsrun goes after college and high school kids.
You people won your election on the back of the scary trans people , being like the tiniest bit of the population, but right wingers make them the cause of the world problems.
Be happy your messiah won, now he's going after black kids
, and in like 70 colleges being investigated for allegedly now favoring white people above black people, the small amount of black people in college compared to white people , and a black medal of honor winners won't be featured at the Pentagon because he's black
The latest casualty in the Department of Defense's sweep of all things related to diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) is Charles Calvin Rogers, a Black Army officer who received the Medal of Honor for his gallant defense of...
So Lets Run can keep beating up trans kids, because WTF else do they have to talk about. One day soon a trans kid will be attacked by a mob, maybe lynched, we've seen it before with other minority children and Letsrun will smile.
But this is proof positive of Letsrun's bigotry: In 2020 a trans woman ran in the Olympic Trials, no one has ever heard of her name, it's Megan Youngren , no she didn't beat Aliphine Chepkerker TULIAMUK, Molly SEIDEL or Sally KIPYEGO and no she didn't get to the Olympics and win a bronze medal. She finished 160th place in the trials, but her name is not the name right wingers bring out. WHY!? You know why, it's the same formula used for years when talking about the "other".
They must find the one to make them menacing, and a 160th place just won't do that or even the trans woman who made it to the Olympics in 2021 in weight lifting and couldn't even lift the opening weight. These individuals won't make fox news, they won't scare the heck out or LetsRun staff.
What traction can they get from a trans person who finishes in the back, what traction can they get that a trans woman has never been successful in international athletics, so to scare you and some people love being scared they bring out 1 of a million who has been successful and that is enough to scare the bejesus out of everyone.
It's a strategy used since the beginning of time and you guys are AWESOME at it. Congrats, you won :) There are plenty of countries the US is striving to be, where trans and LGBT people aren't wanted;
Years ago the worst stories were of murder and genocide and war the horrible way humans treat each other. Now the number one story, some transgender child 14, 15 16 etc., trying to play a sport and lynch mobs trying to stop them and hurt them.
It's complicated. It's simple. It's tough to face and tough to ignore. When reduced to absurdly simple terms as you see here I'm like "Well, yeah, of course its just some lame-o's who just arent cutting it with their given...tools, taking cheap advantage of a convenient new trick. Declare that you are a female and go for the wins, trophies and, yes, buck! But then youre faced with the recent medical and political buzz and business about trans and the various other gender issues. It gets complicated, deep, and, for some of us, confusing, but the upshot is that it is no easy matter to sort this out without a mountain of disscusion debate and rancor.
I dont pretend to be sorting anything out but the strands of my own confusion. Proponents on different sides of the matter make strong intelligent statements with corroborating data and evidence. But try as I might I keep finding myself in the camp of those who see the --on the one simple plain of racing and competition--people, guys mainly, who are benefitting (not trying to separate the honest and true, the sheep from the goats, people from the opportunists) makes me stuck on the side that agrees with the reductio people--a gate has been opened to opportunistic wanabe winners who will do a dishonest deed to get a slice of glory. Please prove me wrong!
I cannot prove you wrong.
It is all about the priority. If you think the most important objective in sports is to prevent undeserving person from winning, then you are absolutely right. It's more important to drain the bathwater than saving a few children who might be thrown away. But if you think one baby thrown away is one too many, then you need a more nuanced solution.
Supposed there is substance that enhances one's athletic performance. Allowing this substance in competition gives some athletes unfair advantage. But there are also other people who cannot compete without this substance. If the most important goal is to prevent an undeserving winner, then this substance should be banned.
However, the sports world figured out this dilemma by giving therapeutic use exemption to those who have medical need. TUE is not perfect and it can be abused. But it achieved some balance between competitive fairness and inclusion. The same can be achieved in this issue.
Thanks. Just one thing: "If you think the most important objective in sports is to prevent an undeserving winner..." Is that how you want to say this? Looks like some error, because why on earth would that be my or anyone's priority? Of course not. It's kind of a strange phrase to me. Way down my list of ideas!
No periods, can't bare children, can never be a Queen, Duchess, Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader, can never go to an all girls school, can never sing in an all girls choir, can never be a sister, mom , granny, aunt,...........the first lady,
INCORRECT!.
This teen has been singing in all girls choir for years, and she has won multiple awards with her high school acapella group.
I bet there are more trans girls on girls choir than on high school sports teams. The ones on choir do not make the headlines because no one accuses them of having unfair advantage.
As for all girls schools, there are already women's colleges that accept trans women
Thanks. Just one thing: "If you think the most important objective in sports is to prevent an undeserving winner..." Is that how you want to say this? Looks like some error, because why on earth would that be my or anyone's priority? Of course not. It's kind of a strange phrase to me. Way down my list of ideas!
Well, let me ask you this question.
Do you think it's more important to make sure that no drug cheat wins? Or do you think it's more important to make sure that no one is disqualified for "false positive"?
It seems most people on this board think the former is far more important when it comes to trans athletes. The top priority is to make sure that no trans athlete "steals" a title from a cis woman. But blanket ban will also throw many kids out of sports, even if they don't win anything important. Most people here prefer that outcome.
I understand that no one has the right to compete in sports. It's privilege given to the fortunate majority. Life lessons that kids can learn from sports can be learned from other activities. And those activities are far less toxic.
I’m not “scared” of “trans” people any more than I’m “scared” of an emaciated anorexic girl who thinks she’s chubby and could lose a few pounds. Both are objectively falsehoods masquerading as reality. Nobody is obliged to pretend that the false is true in order to make someone feel temporarily better in the moment, or to be socially courteous. It’s a delusion.
Now, it may not be at all the fault of the person laboring under the delusion that they have that delusion. Many “trans” young people have been sexually abused, neglected or otherwise, and have taken on a transgender identity as a way to cope. These people are of course deserving of sympathy and care, but bending to a delusion—even if the person is in some sense the victim—is not the way forward.
I don’t believe that trans women should be in sports, not even primarily because of the fairness issue, but simply because trans women don’t exist. They are men who think they are women.
It’s not “fear” that causes me to think this, just agreement with reality.
LMFAO, the people on this sight are using this issue like it was Thanksgiving Turkey. And its so funny because in the history of athletics esp when it was authorized to compete internationally from 2004 - 2022 not one trans runner athlete ever won a damn thing in all the Olympics or World Championships, or Diamond Leagues, or Marathons or Road Races "ever" in the entire world, so Letsrun goes after college and high school kids.
You people won your election on the back of the scary trans people , being like the tiniest bit of the population, but right wingers make them the cause of the world problems.
Be happy your messiah won, now he's going after black kids , and in like 70 colleges being investigated for allegedly now favoring white people above black people, the small amount of black people in college compared to white people , and a black medal of honor winners won't be featured at the Pentagon because he's black
So Lets Run can keep beating up trans kids, because WTF else do they have to talk about. One day soon a trans kid will be attacked by a mob, maybe lynched, we've seen it before with other minority children and Letsrun will smile.
But this is proof positive of Letsrun's bigotry: In 2020 a trans woman ran in the Olympic Trials, no one has ever heard of her name, it's Megan Youngren , no she didn't beat Aliphine Chepkerker TULIAMUK, Molly SEIDEL or Sally KIPYEGO and no she didn't get to the Olympics and win a bronze medal. She finished 160th place in the trials, but her name is not the name right wingers bring out. WHY!? You know why, it's the same formula used for years when talking about the "other".
They must find the one to make them menacing, and a 160th place just won't do that or even the trans woman who made it to the Olympics in 2021 in weight lifting and couldn't even lift the opening weight. These individuals won't make fox news, they won't scare the heck out or LetsRun staff.
What traction can they get from a trans person who finishes in the back, what traction can they get that a trans woman has never been successful in international athletics, so to scare you and some people love being scared they bring out 1 of a million who has been successful and that is enough to scare the bejesus out of everyone.
It's a strategy used since the beginning of time and you guys are AWESOME at it. Congrats, you won :) There are plenty of countries the US is striving to be, where trans and LGBT people aren't wanted;
Years ago the worst stories were of murder and genocide and war the horrible way humans treat each other. Now the number one story, some transgender child 14, 15 16 etc., trying to play a sport and lynch mobs trying to stop them and hurt them.
Welcome to America!
Totally garbage 🗑
Trackfangirl has lied to an insane level about things that haven't happened and will never happen.
What a sick person she is, just evil to an exponential level.
Won the election on that? You're beyond help. Ignorance would be a compliment
Oh please. What countries can you not say “speech of this nature?” You really are a drama queen. Maybe not transgender though.
Lots of EU countries as well as some in South America. Also, until very recently, in most of the UK.
Here' a fairly recent example from France that made headlines in Europe last year.
After Karla Sofía Gascón, a 52-year-old man with a wife and teen daughter who adopted a trans gender identity at age 47, was the only male member of an ensemble to win the Best Actress prize at the Cannes Film Festival in May of 2024, French rightwing politician Marion Maréchal [aka Maréchal-Le Pen] posted on X
“it is therefore a man who receives in Cannes the prize for… best actress. The progress for the left wing is the erasing of women and mothers.”
From Euro News, Le Monde and and other MSM accounts:
The hateful social post sparked outrage within the LGBTQ community, leading six LGBTQ groups to file a complaint earlier this week with the for “transphobic insult.”
French LGBT+ orgs Mousse, LGBT Families, Adheos, Quazar, LBGTI+ Federation and STOP homophobia said they had filed a complaint against Maréchal-Le Pen on Monday with the Paris Public Prosecutor for “insult due to gender identity”.
They noted in a statement that the offence is punishable by one year of imprisonment and a fine of 45,000 euros under French law.
Now, Gascón’s lawyer Etienne Deshoulières confirmed Gascón had filed a legal complaint with the Public Prosecutor for “sexist insult on the basis of gender identity” as well.
Maréchal, 34, could be sentenced to a one-year imprisonment and fined €30,000 if she’s found guilty of transphobic insult; alternatively, she could be fined €3,750 if she’s charged with “sexist insult due to one’s gender identity.”
In an interview with Radio France Internationale, Maréchal responded to the legal complaint, saying: “I will not be prevented from continuing to say what is the truth. Being a woman or a man is a biological reality, whether you like it or not.”
Unfortunately for Gascón, his time in the sun as the celebrated darling of European LGBTQ+ organizations turned out to be short-lived - as did his reign as the favorite to win the Best Actress Oscar at the Academy Awards - after it was discovered that he himself had made a number of posts on social media that others considered racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic and Islamophobic.
As a cis woman, I don’t mind trans women being included in female categories for things like acting. Because with acting there isn’t a biological sex advantage. Sports is another story.
If trans women are women then you don't need to add the modifier "trans" to women.
Obviously, even you don't believe this BS.
If male athletes are athletes, then you don't need to add the modifier "male" to athletes. Or does this make perfect sense and you just forget that adjectives and descriptors exist?
You need to add "male" if you are trying differentiate male athletes from female athletes. Just like you need to add "trans" to women if you are trying to differentiate females from males pretending to be females.
Modifiers provide information about the subject - or did you just forget that?
