You're new to this sport aren't you. PR's aren't absolute, they are a current data point. Fisher has huge upside. Besides, 1500m times don't matter when it comes to a kicking. Fisher proved that against Hocker.
Sounds more like you’re the one who’s new. Fisher does not have huge upside in the 1500m. His 3:33 PB was set just a week before he ran 7:22. And of course time matters in this context. Someone who runs 3:33.9 in peak shape isn’t likely to be able to close a 3k in 3:34. It’s common sense.
no one says fisher is a 1500 guy. he was not peak fast like at the olympics, and his seldom run 1500 is not indicative. one 1500 does not tell all.
Fisher is faster than people think, though the olympic bronze finishes are blatant testimonials, where he wasn't far off gold.
he's 331 at worst in a setup race and more like 330, in this inflated universe.
You are still not providing any numbers to make your claim probable.
I will. however, grant you that Hicham, Lagat, Farah, Komen and Morceli at their peak shape possibly could run 2:19/ 1:49.
But Bekele and Geb? Can you find any CHAMPIONSHIP race outdoor or indoor where they came even close to these times.
It can´t be Bekele´s 2008 Olympic 5000m gold race since he ran 2:25.30/ 1:54.81 in that occasion.
When Kenenisa and Geb came to play, they were not going to crawl around like babies for over half the race. You are referring to 2008, when Kenenisa ran 12:57. Kenenisa and Geb could both run 2:19 off that pace yesterday, which as I said at 2000m was slower than world record pace for the half marathon. They both would have been jogging, and both had 1:47 ability for sure, so closing in 1:49.9 off a relative jog would have been a given.
FYI, geb has an 800m PB of 1:49 and Mo's PB is 1:48.
No, they didn't have "1:47 ability sure ", much less "1:49.9 off a relative would have been a given".
You are still not providing any numbers to make your claim probable.
I will. however, grant you that Hicham, Lagat, Farah, Komen and Morceli at their peak shape possibly could run 2:19/ 1:49.
But Bekele and Geb? Can you find any CHAMPIONSHIP race outdoor or indoor where they came even close to these times.
It can´t be Bekele´s 2008 Olympic 5000m gold race since he ran 2:25.30/ 1:54.81 in that occasion.
When Kenenisa and Geb came to play, they were not going to crawl around like babies for over half the race. You are referring to 2008, when Kenenisa ran 12:57. Kenenisa and Geb could both run 2:19 off that pace yesterday, which as I said at 2000m was slower than world record pace for the half marathon. They both would have been jogging, and both had 1:47 ability for sure, so closing in 1:49.9 off a relative jog would have been a given.
Do you realize that your opinion about Bekele and Geb is a mere postulate?
If they never in a 5000m or 3000m have finished even close to 2:19 for the final 1000m it is most likely because they didn´t have that ability.
More Bekele races:
In the 2003 WC 5000m final Bekele got bronce after Kipchoge and El-G. The last 1000m was run in 2:24.33; the last 800m in 1:52.0. But it was a fast winning time: 12.52.79.
In the OG 5000m final in 2004 Bekele lost to El-G who ran 13:14.4 so not so fast this time. Last 1000m in 2:26.78 and last 800m in 1.54.4
In the 2009 WC 5000m final Bekele finally won a WC gold in this event in 13:17.10 with a 2:24.88 last 1000m and 1:51.98 last 800m.
Jakob has finished races like the Olympic 2004 final and the WC 2009 final in 2:21 for the last 1000m.
Does it look like your Bekele could come close to a 2:19/ 1:49 finish?
When also taking into account that Jakob is MUCH faster in the 3000m, the 2000m and the 1500m than Bekele was. And possibly also in the 5000m when runs a fast paced 5000m.
And that Jakob´s fastest 1000m finish until yesterday - as far as I remember - was a high 2:20 in a 5000m final.
Do know a litle bit about scientific principles? If not, I can inform you that YOU have the burden of evidence for your claims. So if you - in this case - can´t point to an actual race where Bekele or Geb has run near Jakob´s times your claim is dismissed.
When Kenenisa and Geb came to play, they were not going to crawl around like babies for over half the race. You are referring to 2008, when Kenenisa ran 12:57. Kenenisa and Geb could both run 2:19 off that pace yesterday, which as I said at 2000m was slower than world record pace for the half marathon. They both would have been jogging, and both had 1:47 ability for sure, so closing in 1:49.9 off a relative jog would have been a given.
FYI, geb has an 800m PB of 1:49 and Mo's PB is 1:48.
No, they didn't have "1:47 ability sure ", much less "1:49.9 off a relative would have been a given".
As someone who knows more about this than you, I can tell you that you are incorrect. It is almost as if you guys are mental midgets. Mo ran 1:48 when he was 20 and was a 3:43 1500m and 8:05 3000m runner then. Mo later ran 3:28 and you can be damn sure he could run 1:47 then, and Geb and Kenenisa could also, although Mo was probably like 1:47.2 and they were closer to 1:47.8.
When Kenenisa and Geb came to play, they were not going to crawl around like babies for over half the race. You are referring to 2008, when Kenenisa ran 12:57. Kenenisa and Geb could both run 2:19 off that pace yesterday, which as I said at 2000m was slower than world record pace for the half marathon. They both would have been jogging, and both had 1:47 ability for sure, so closing in 1:49.9 off a relative jog would have been a given.
Do you realize that your opinion about Bekele and Geb is a mere postulate?
If they never in a 5000m or 3000m have finished even close to 2:19 for the final 1000m it is most likely because they didn´t have that ability.
More Bekele races:
In the 2003 WC 5000m final Bekele got bronce after Kipchoge and El-G. The last 1000m was run in 2:24.33; the last 800m in 1:52.0. But it was a fast winning time: 12.52.79.
In the OG 5000m final in 2004 Bekele lost to El-G who ran 13:14.4 so not so fast this time. Last 1000m in 2:26.78 and last 800m in 1.54.4
In the 2009 WC 5000m final Bekele finally won a WC gold in this event in 13:17.10 with a 2:24.88 last 1000m and 1:51.98 last 800m.
Jakob has finished races like the Olympic 2004 final and the WC 2009 final in 2:21 for the last 1000m.
Does it look like your Bekele could come close to a 2:19/ 1:49 finish?
When also taking into account that Jakob is MUCH faster in the 3000m, the 2000m and the 1500m than Bekele was. And possibly also in the 5000m when runs a fast paced 5000m.
And that Jakob´s fastest 1000m finish until yesterday - as far as I remember - was a high 2:20 in a 5000m final.
Do know a litle bit about scientific principles? If not, I can inform you that YOU have the burden of evidence for your claims. So if you - in this case - can´t point to an actual race where Bekele or Geb has run near Jakob´s times your claim is dismissed.
You are a stubborn Norwegian and frankly a Jakob fanboy, and anything but an “objective observer.” You don’t understand this sort of thing, and frankly, there are only about half a dozen of you who seem to. There are a few people here like JWH and Thoughtsguy, that if they disagree with me I will think about it a bit, but not guys like you.
Yeah you got to balance that he did on the penultimate lap tuck in on the turns and get drafted most of it. But the last lap is wild as he has to go wide and is chasing like a madman. Yet he is gaining vs two all-time greats. It's like the Nordas '23 run on E...never mind. Fun to watch.
This starts at the final 800. I mean look at the first 50m - he's almost in lane three on the turn in some mess with Songok. He then does run somewhat sensibly from the 300m mark until the home straight where he then does the old "reverse out of the parking space" move to again needlessly stick himself way out in lane 2 - just before the curve.
I would love to see a top down graphic of his movement over the track (this is a good idea actually) during this race. It might be the worst executed run ever relative to where he finishes in the race (a bronze in the OG 1500m).
I guess a better way look at it historically, is how many people could’ve beaten George Mills, since he closed in 2:20.2.
When framed that way, I think ~ 5-15 per year depending on the year.
Probably 50+ all time.
George Mills is B-level runner that struggles to make finals at international competitions. And he does not have great speed.
this is moronic
google Mills Iaaf
347 mile
49.03 400m at age 15.
this guy hasn't found his niche exactly
the talent is there however
sure they did not do an ElG, with his EPO buddies.
When I go to his IAAF, I see exactly what I stated: a tier 2 runner.
2024 - didn’t make 1500m final
2024 - made the 5000m final due to a fall
2023 - didn’t get selected
2022 - 5th at UK Champs 1500m
2021 - 7th at UK Champs 1500m
The only thing moronic is that you are a grown man that thinks emotionally. The facts are that Mills is a 1 tier below elite and lots of people could have beat him.
The fall was the best thing to happen in his career.
I still can’t believe Jakob let Hocker come inside him. Jakob blocked him from coming inside once, and then let Hocker do it when he tried again. Unbelievable.
I still can’t believe Jakob let Hocker come inside him. Jakob blocked him from coming inside once, and then let Hocker do it when he tried again. Unbelievable.
surely you did not type this and click post without it maybe crossing your mind that there are other ways to word this
I still can’t believe Jakob let Hocker come inside him. Jakob blocked him from coming inside once, and then let Hocker do it when he tried again. Unbelievable.
surely you did not type this and click post without it maybe crossing your mind that there are other ways to word this
You might say that about his fans. They come here all the time.
Top 3 assuredly. I tend to think Kessler would be in the neighborhood of where Mills was (which is still quite good, closing in 3:35).
I wouldn't completely rule out Fisher/Aregawi as while they are getting dangerously close to their top end, I still see them beating Mills/Kessler. Fisher's PBs arent exactly from when he's at 100% sharpness, he might have a 3:32 in him, and the same for Aregawi. Kejelcha is another name to toss in this mix, but at this stage he might fall a bit short, as might Barega.
Fisher ran 3:33.99 right before running his lifetime bests of 7:22/12:44. That's the peak of sharpness. He can't do this. Kessler isn't a 3k guy. He ran 7:35 before winning U.S. champs. He's definitely not there yet. Hocker could probably do it. Nuguse's 3k pr is similar to Mill's. He'd probably have been able to beat Mills but not equal Jakob, who after all took the pedal off the medal. Kerr could have done this last year indoors (his wr for the indoor 2M was equivalent to 7:24 and he has 3:27 1500m speed). Also, I want to point out that while Mills picked the pace up before, until 2k, no lap had even been at 4:00 1600m pace (the fastest having been 30s-33s during the pickup). This 3:34 was done solely on the strength of the last 1k in 2:19, which is 3:28.5 pace.