The hat industry in New Zealand has reached new all-time hights in the last few years.
I know I guy down under who will start a letsrun-crush tomorrow when he hears about this new victory: indoors is worth nothing, Europeans are worth nothing, 12:48, 4th, reduced to a walk.
Congrats to Ingebrigtsen to his 20th (?) European Gold medal. Really great for any distance running fan to follow this young, very ambitious guy on his way to the top in the distance running all-time rankings. One more global Gold in the summer and without any doubt he already is in the top 5.
Americans too quickly dismiss the importance of Euro titles to the Europeans. Look at the reactions of the Bulgarian that won the long jump, and even Afonso who won silver in the women's 1500. It's a big deal. Independent of the world records, world champ golds, and olympic golds, Jakob will almost certainly end his career as the most decorated European track athlete in any distance. That's a big deal over there, and I think it matters to him, too, which is why he shows up every year at this meet when his main competitors (ahem, Kerr) do not.
They will dismiss the euros, but at the same time call people legends if they are NCAA champs. I think the continental championship thing just doesn't track for americans (see what I did).
TL, you make the same mistake as most posters here: You think he was all in but he wasn´t.
If he had been all in he would have destroyed his competition in the last lap.
I think he will go all in sunday in the end of the 3000m final (barring any accidents).
Is it a mistake? I have watched a lot of Jakob, and so have you. In terms of tactics, yes he exhibits different levels of seriousness and commitment. But in the last 75 if I see him looking around for me it is nearly always to check if he has done enough. It's more that than than indicative there is another gear coming or available. If he had this supposed extra gear, we would see it on display in these slower races. That being said yes of course he could've held that speed longer, and that will be his route to winning. He has to outlast these guys. But he showed nothing special today, where the top 4-5 guys don't think they could come over the top of it with a sub-13 last 100.
Or not...? Why would he?
This reads like this is your first championship (I know it isn’t).
Do we think this was the tactic he would employ if he was desperate for a win?
Do he allways win with 10m+ in those championship races where we know he was in shape for more? Or does he sometimes just give just enough?
Do we think that you go from indoor 1500 and mile WR to eeking out 3.34 or what it was?
TL, you make the same mistake as most posters here: You think he was all in but he wasn´t.
If he had been all in he would have destroyed his competition in the last lap.
I think he will go all in sunday in the end of the 3000m final (barring any accidents).
Is it a mistake? I have watched a lot of Jakob, and so have you. In terms of tactics, yes he exhibits different levels of seriousness and commitment. But in the last 75 if I see him looking around for me it is nearly always to check if he has done enough. It's more that than than indicative there is another gear coming or available. If he had this supposed extra gear, we would see it on display in these slower races. That being said yes of course he could've held that speed longer, and that will be his route to winning. He has to outlast these guys. But he showed nothing special today, where the top 4-5 guys don't think they could come over the top of it with a sub-13 last 100.
Correct. Jakob will never be relevant over the global stage over 1500m ever again. Kerr, Nuguse, and Hocker were chuckling watching this at home with their Olympic medals. He has the 5000m atleast, oh wait, Fisher may be the next guy in that event very soon.
Americans too quickly dismiss the importance of Euro titles to the Europeans. Look at the reactions of the Bulgarian that won the long jump, and even Afonso who won silver in the women's 1500. It's a big deal. Independent of the world records, world champ golds, and olympic golds, Jakob will almost certainly end his career as the most decorated European track athlete in any distance. That's a big deal over there, and I think it matters to him, too, which is why he shows up every year at this meet when his main competitors (ahem, Kerr) do not.
They will dismiss the euros, but at the same time call people legends if they are NCAA champs. I think the continental championship thing just doesn't track for americans (see what I did).
Bro, all you write about is Jakob and his Norwegian athletic and cultural context, go to kondis or something. We get it, you think we are superior.
This reads like this is your first championship (I know it isn’t).
Do we think this was the tactic he would employ if he was desperate for a win?
Do he allways win with 10m+ in those championship races where we know he was in shape for more? Or does he sometimes just give just enough?
Do we think that you go from indoor 1500 and mile WR to eeking out 3.34 or what it was?
No he will run differently of course! That was my exact point. I was responding to Salvatore’s idea that this was some blueprint for Worlds. He will have to push harder and much earlier. Maybe not from the gun but certainly faster than mid-28 from much earlier than 600 out.
Jakob only needs 1 more gold and he matches Valeriy Burzov's medal count. Imagine that. I think he'll lose tomorrow though to Laros, didn't look that good today.
You don´t understand his situation He ran as fast as necessary as he is running 3000m heat in 12 hours AND ........
he will handle Laros & Co. easily sunday.
See his win over Gourley 2 years ago. He was running in exactly the same way. Not spending more energy than necessary.
I would agree with you. 3k heats in 12 hours- just run to win the 15. I think the 3k will be a real fight, however.
This is all well and good against this level of competition, but if he tried this on a fit Kerr or Hocker outdoors in my opinion he would be toast. The acceleration was too late and not potent enough to shake those guys, and outdoors he will lose some of the advantage of the congestion you saw here with Gourley and Farken affected, and Habz/Nader fighting behind him.
I see your point, I don't completely agree. Because that then relies on those guys wanting to/being able to drive the race from the front from basically the start of the race and I don't think that is the MO of either Kerr or Hocker (and even Nuguse) tbh. I don't think any of those three would be particularly happy or willing to take out a global final in 56.0 seconds. I think there are almost always lulls in these races after the opening 300m where the fields look to settle in position and give opportunities for moves like this. I could definitely envision a situation where Jakob is able to run a very relaxed opening 150m and then make his way to the front down the back straight for the second time to mount a massive screw-turner from 1000m out. Just my opinion though.
They will dismiss the euros, but at the same time call people legends if they are NCAA champs. I think the continental championship thing just doesn't track for americans (see what I did).
Bro, all you write about is Jakob and his Norwegian athletic and cultural context, go to kondis or something. We get it, you think we are superior.
Oh no, imagine being interested in Jakob Ingebrigtsen when he is of the same nationality as you and on his way in becoming one of the legends of the sport. If Maradona was from Norway, Norwegians would run around pretending to favor Pelé, thinking its the cool and right thing to do.
Whish I was as cool as you bro, and could pretend like I was equally fan of runners from other nathionalities. Let me guess, you root for Belgium in the football WC? If an english club comes to play a match against your home team you sport the F.C shirt?
If I thought *we* was superiour I would have been equally interested in Nordaas (I am not).
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
I see your point, I don't completely agree. Because that then relies on those guys wanting to/being able to drive the race from the front from basically the start of the race and I don't think that is the MO of either Kerr or Hocker (and even Nuguse) tbh. I don't think any of those three would be particularly happy or willing to take out a global final in 56.0 seconds. I think there are almost always lulls in these races after the opening 300m where the fields look to settle in position and give opportunities for moves like this. I could definitely envision a situation where Jakob is able to run a very relaxed opening 150m and then make his way to the front down the back straight for the second time to mount a massive screw-turner from 1000m out. Just my opinion though.
Again that’s fine and my concern is with the screw-turning not the game plan. Today falls way short of the sort of sustained kick and finish he needs.
After taking the lead he went 14.3/14.4/14.4/14.2/13.8/13.4/13.1/13.06 which is 1:50.66. He will need to be hitting a 1:48pt in all likelihood against the big boys, and 14+ segments are going to do zilch.
EDIT: and don’t get me wrong in saying that this sort of execution would result in him getting crushed by everyone…26.16 is a creditable finish and no cakewalk to top from behind. His floor is high with this, as what is Nuguse/Kerr’s max finish 25.8? With Yared’s positioning he might be in trouble. Tactically I’d trust Kerr. Hocker can finish a slower race in 25.5. That’s the trump card.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
Jakob only needs 1 more gold and he matches Valeriy Burzov's medal count. Imagine that. I think he'll lose tomorrow though to Laros, didn't look that good today.
The 3000 is JAKOB's wheelhouse. If Jakob loses to Laros in a 3000 tmw and isn't sick, then he's done for as a gold medal threat in the 1500. How in the world would he be expected to beat Laros in a 1500 if he can't beat him in the 3000.
TL, you make the same mistake as most posters here: You think he was all in but he wasn´t.
If he had been all in he would have destroyed his competition in the last lap.
I think he will go all in sunday in the end of the 3000m final (barring any accidents).
Is it a mistake? I have watched a lot of Jakob, and so have you. In terms of tactics, yes he exhibits different levels of seriousness and commitment. But in the last 75 if I see him looking around for me it is nearly always to check if he has done enough. It's more that than than indicative there is another gear coming or available. If he had this supposed extra gear, we would see it on display in these slower races. That being said yes of course he could've held that speed longer, and that will be his route to winning. He has to outlast these guys. But he showed nothing special today, where the top 4-5 guys don't think they could come over the top of it with a sub-13 last 100.
Remember (as I stated above): He is running 3000m heat tomorrow morning.
When he lost to Lewandowski in the indoor 1500m final in 2019 the 3000m was run first and Lewandowski only ran the 1500m so Jakob has learned to not waste his energy unnecessarily.
That was 100% some strategy practice looking forwards to Tokyo in 6 months.
Was back to being last out of the gate - no stress on his system looking for position in the opening 400m. When everyone settled in he made his move and that was it. Turned the screws for each of the last remaining 200m sections from 800m out - starting at 28.6's and finishing with 27.20 and 26.16. That race construct was how I believed he could win in Paris.
It would have been interesting if when he was moving past the field coming up to that 600m point, if the guys in the pack had sensed it and made him work harder/wider to move up and the front of the race had even accelerated for 50/100m. And he didn't bury Habz or Nader there - that could have been interesting.
But as it was, a pretty solid tactical masterclass there from Jakob. 3rd straight euro indoor title - it's very cool he shows up and races time after time I have to say.
This is all well and good against this level of competition, but if he tried this on a fit Kerr or Hocker outdoors in my opinion he would be toast. The acceleration was too late and not potent enough to shake those guys, and outdoors he will lose some of the advantage of the congestion you saw here with Gourley and Farken affected, and Habz/Nader fighting behind him.
Thats why he did not go all out. Why would he give the same effort against Habz here as he would against Kerr, Hocker and Nuguse at worlds? I agree that it would not work against them but he was not facing them and has another race in 10 hours.
Thats why he did not go all out. Why would he give the same effort against Habz here as he would against Kerr, Hocker and Nuguse at worlds? I agree that it would not work against them but he was not facing them and has another race in 10 hours.
I am arguing with Salvatore, not you or others. To beat this level of competition AND not kill himself ahead of the 3,000, this was a fine strategy. Habz and Nader probably can't beat 26.16 or 53-mid unless its a 3:40+ race, they're just not that level of good. Against better competitors he will have to work much harder, and I'm sure he's aware of that. I expect him to push harder from much further out once the competition ramps up.
Remember (as I stated above): He is running 3000m heat tomorrow morning.
When he lost to Lewandowski in the indoor 1500m final in 2019 the 3000m was run first and Lewandowski only ran the 1500m so Jakob has learned to not waste his energy unnecessarily.
My only quibble with you is that he has this "extra gear." I really don't think he does. What he does have is an ability to run faster and harder than anyone else. He didn't have to use that today as Habz/Nader don't have the extra gear either.
Americans too quickly dismiss the importance of Euro titles to the Europeans. Look at the reactions of the Bulgarian that won the long jump, and even Afonso who won silver in the women's 1500. It's a big deal. Independent of the world records, world champ golds, and olympic golds, Jakob will almost certainly end his career as the most decorated European track athlete in any distance. That's a big deal over there, and I think it matters to him, too, which is why he shows up every year at this meet when his main competitors (ahem, Kerr) do not.
They will dismiss the euros, but at the same time call people legends if they are NCAA champs. I think the continental championship thing just doesn't track for americans (see what I did).
Americans who treat college running as more prestigious and more valuable than being the champion of Europe is something I will never wrap my head around
They will dismiss the euros, but at the same time call people legends if they are NCAA champs. I think the continental championship thing just doesn't track for americans (see what I did).
Americans who treat college running as more prestigious and more valuable than being the champion of Europe is something I will never wrap my head around
There're two elements to this, I guess I would say. If you are a sprinter, winning NCAAs might actually be harder/more impressive than winning European Champs. Europe has had better sprint performance of late I think, but still look at some of the depth and top-end of these NCAA sprint fields.
Also, NCAAs has traditionally been highly connected to the age of the competitors. This has kinda been unseated with COVID, lax rules etc. But in the past, it was more of an age-class competition akin to U23s. So that has some "legend" aspect to it.
In general, I'd agree with you but how many posters really think Nathan Green's NCAA titles are really worth more than Jakob's European titles. US titles? Now we are talking about something.
Georgia “out of nowhere” Bell ran 3:52 to get bronze at the Olympic last year and has an 800m PB set in 2024 of 1:56 and can’t even podium in an 4:08 race? What a joke.
in a slow race he begged for a sit and kick, beating setting up the field from leading most of the way. same old same old. and why?
i'd want to see a move from 600 m out at most and drop a 26 second 200m, and take it home. with a gap, they can't sit and kick. which is the point of not allowing competitors of 2 seconds less ability to gain the upper hand drafting all the way, and appearing have the big kick, when it is a win in a war of attrition in the stretcy.
no matter, it's practice of sorts.
like someone said, you need to close in 148 to pull those kind of tactics off at the next level.
Jacobs competitors are showing sportsmanship in great admiration, and they will gladly show more admiration, when Jacob rabbits them all the way to their win in a fast championship race. same old.