"My government documents currently reflect my female gender identity, but under this executive order, I could presumably be forcibly categorized as 'male'."
So the government is telling this person who has lived her entire life as a female that she is actually a man. They are also telling her daughters that their "mother" is actually their father because she is a man. They are also telling her husband that he is in a same-sex marriage with another man.
Or the government is telling that she simply does not exist in the eyes of the federal government.
How is this not inhumane and cruel?
I don't think it's inhumane to label anyone truthfully as male or female if that's what they are.....I think this person is beautiful, and there is nothing insulting or cruel objectively stating that she is a male that appears female. What is cruel is brainwashing people into thinking there is something wrong with themselves and that they have to label themselves outside of reality in order to fit in to societal standards of what a female or male looks like. I hope this person, and her family (yes I am using her pronouns to be respectful), learn to accept that she is male and come to terms with it and love themselves for it....I do not see the reason for internal turmoil except that she has not come to terms with her own biological reality yet and has been escaping it by denying that she is male. That in the long run, is counterintuitive and it is not the role of our government to play along with that illusion.
Do you think this person should be banned from public restrooms for women?
Do you think she should be banned from using women's locker rooms?
Do you think she should have "M" on her passport and driver's license and will be forced explain about her genetics (to ignorant people who don 't know what androgen insensitivity is) every time she has to show her ID?
She is open about being intersex. But there are others who aren't. Those people will be forced to out themselves by Trump's EO.
It is true that there is nothing to be ashamed of being intersex. But there is also nothing ashamed of being Black. That did not stop many light-skinned Black people from trying to pass as white.
Intersex people will stop trying to pass as endosex when the rest of society stops stigmatizing them. We still have a long way to go before that happens.
Man does this site continue to lean in on the fear of transgender people. I mean I don’t blame them; the creators are republicans, and it helped a person who openly admires the leader of 1933 Germany win an election.
But what is hilarious to me is all those who have lost their jobs who supported this man, now complaining.
But remember what Joker said…. You get what you deserve. Please stop complaining now. I say what is really happening is they are looking for a "Final Solution”, of the transgender problem. That starts with the demonizing of a small minority, making them the cause of everyone’s problems, then systematically eliminating them from existence.
The sports issue is a non-issue and anyone with a quarter of a brain would understand that this is 100% about bigotry and fear of the other and intolerance, always the seeds throughout history for genocide!
Let me first define a transgender woman: A transgender woman or transexual woman is one who was assigned male at birth, but her life she identified as female, the gender she knew herself to be and sought to live her life and her gender as a female. Many have heard the term born in the wrong body and many suffer from gender dysphoria until they transition.
I am not talking about non-binary people for this discussion, so I am not talking about Nikki Hiltz who was assigned female at birth and only competes in female sports. Now, since that is clear let me continue!
Let’s take a serious look at sports. In 2004 the International Olympic Committee that oversee sports internationally made it possible for trans women to compete in women’s sports, across a wide variety of sports if they had surgery and starting in 2015 surgery was no longer needed only hormone replacement therapy. In those years it meant that trans women could compete in the Olympics under certain conditions. I will stick to running and track and field because that is my expertise. Unlike other sports people make the most in track and Field from exposure in the Olympics and to a lesser extent the World Championships. That is where they get the most endorsements and of course set records in their events.
If what people who hate trans people say is true about dominance, this would have been fertile grounds for trans women to dominate. There were plenty of opportunities. In a typical track meet there are 1 events, 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5,000m, 10,000m, marathon, hammer throw, discuss, shot put, long jump, triple jump, high jump, pole vault. So, for every track meet there are 14 events or 15 times in that meet for a trans woman to dominate other females.
So, any so-called intelligent person here can guess how many of these events over the course of those years were dominated by trans women, since they are supposed to have been so superior. If you participate in these events one can become millionaires, esp. with the Olympics.
Remember they were authorized to compete from 2004 until 2022. That’s 14 events times Olympic games, so 70 opportunities, 8 world championships, that’s 8 times 14 so 112 more opportunities, and there are 10-15 Diamond League Track Meets over the course of that time and not all of the field events are involved in every Diamond League or the 10,000m, so let’s just go with the running events 6 events times 15 meets times 18 years, so over a 1,000 opportunities.
And then there are road races over the 18 year period that was open for trans women to compete in all the big money marathons, ½ marathons, 10k’s and 5k’s etc. , over those 18 years, so that is an untold number of opportunities, but let’s conservatively say 200 race opportunities for superior trans women to beat up on other women and win big money.
In total a quick count gives trans women in track or running sports over 5,000 opportunities to win gold, silver or bronze, and the money that goes with it and dominating women’s running.
And I haven’t included domestic track events like USA Track and Field Championships or Championships held in other countries, and other championships. Now the question of so-called dominance, in all of the events where the top three receive not only a lot of money, but also gold, silver or bronze medals, that’s a minimum of 5,000 opportunities competing against other females how many medals did transgender women receive from 2004 until 2022 when they were legally able to compete in these events.
You give up, ZERO!
No transgender woman has ever placed in any professional track and field or road race event, ever!
How can this be when all of you say trans women would dominate but when given the opportunity on the professional level where not only could they dominate but win money, make a living why didn’t that happen?
Have trans women even competed? A trans woman was good enough to compete in the 2020 marathon Olympic trials. Her name was Megan Youngren. Now again the claims that trans women would dominate. IN the Olympic Trials only the top 3 make it to the Olympics. Did Megan make it to the Olympics or was she even close. Nope of course not, she finished near the back in 160th place and nowhere close to making an Olympic team.
And its funny, but not one right winger complained about Megan Youngren, and until now you never even heard her name. IN the history of the Olympic Games and remember trans people were able to compete from 2004 until 2022 but in all that time, only one trans person even made it to the Olympics. She was from New Zealand and her name was Laurel Hubbard In 2020, Hubbard became the first openly transgender woman to compete in the Olympics in weightlifting, although they were allowed to compete since 2004, no one made it.
Now according to the experts maybe trans people are lousy runners, that could answer the questions as to why in that 18 year period none of them won anything or even placed, but in weightlifting they should be able to dominate,
RIGHT.
So how did Laurel Hubbard do in the 2020 Olympics. She no-lifted. That means she could not even lift the opening weight. She sucked and could not beat any of the women
There has not been one world class transgender runner on plant earth who could even compete with natal women, it has just never happened not in running sports at the professional level and I reiterate, they were authorized from 2004 until 2022 when Seb Coe banned them.
Which is funny because he literally banned something that never existed at the professional level and that being a world class transgender female runner.
So, I asked where did all the uproar and hate and hysteria originate and why have trans women not been dominating over a course of 18 years. That is a nice snapshot in time.
Well, there is one name, a swimmer who won some NCAA college swimming meets and the hatred of her. She became the face of the opposition, and she has been used to demonize all transgender people even though she competed by the rules.
Transgender women on hormone replacement therapy and not just androgen blockers, but estrogen and progesterone have no advantage, and if they did, they would have been piling up medals and money during those years from 2004 until 2022 and they didn’t win a damn thing.
This hatred of trans people makes no more sense than the Nazi’s hate of Jews or White people’s hatred of black people for most of this country’s history or the hatred of gays. Transgender people a very tiny part of the population are just the latest in a long history of America and its intolerance.
It is easy to hate in the absence of research. White people use to say black people were no better than apes and had tails, in Germany it was Jews who was making life worse for everyone or that is what that dictator claimed.
The next step or final solution for trans people is genocide!
No one is better than the right wing of America at sowing hate taking an insignificant issue, blowing it up and winning with it. That is right out of Mein Kampf, and it worked very well in 1933 Germany.
As for democrats, there are no more of a spineless human beings than 99% of democrat politicians. They are cowards to the core and its very hard to beat themselves out of a wet paper bag.
When the leader of 1933 Germany won, many in corporate America stood by him and people of good will hid, the same things democrats are doing now!
The total elimination of trans people in this country is the final step they will try, and democrats will do nothing!
They say there are almost a million trans people in the United States, well that many were eliminated in just 90 days in Rwanda!
But the people of this site and those in power in Washington will continue to stoke the seeds of fear, its trans people making your bill increase, its trans people as to why you lost your job, its trans people making the cost of food, gas and electricity increase, it’s trans people this, its trans people that………………………..
Until there are no more trans people and your life will improve.
We’ve seen this logic in history before and as they say history repeats itself!
Man does this site continue to lean in on the fear of transgender people. I mean I don’t blame them; the creators are republicans, and it helped a person who openly admires the leader of 1933 Germany win an election.
But what is hilarious to me is all those who have lost their jobs who supported this man, now complaining.
But remember what Joker said…. You get what you deserve. Please stop complaining now. I say what is really happening is they are looking for a "Final Solution”, of the transgender problem. That starts with the demonizing of a small minority, making them the cause of everyone’s problems, then systematically eliminating them from existence.
The sports issue is a non-issue and anyone with a quarter of a brain would understand that this is 100% about bigotry and fear of the other and intolerance, always the seeds throughout history for genocide!
Let me first define a transgender woman: A transgender woman or transexual woman is one who was assigned male at birth, but her life she identified as female, the gender she knew herself to be and sought to live her life and her gender as a female. Many have heard the term born in the wrong body and many suffer from gender dysphoria until they transition.
I am not talking about non-binary people for this discussion, so I am not talking about Nikki Hiltz who was assigned female at birth and only competes in female sports. Now, since that is clear let me continue!
Let’s take a serious look at sports. In 2004 the International Olympic Committee that oversee sports internationally made it possible for trans women to compete in women’s sports, across a wide variety of sports if they had surgery and starting in 2015 surgery was no longer needed only hormone replacement therapy. In those years it meant that trans women could compete in the Olympics under certain conditions. I will stick to running and track and field because that is my expertise. Unlike other sports people make the most in track and Field from exposure in the Olympics and to a lesser extent the World Championships. That is where they get the most endorsements and of course set records in their events.
If what people who hate trans people say is true about dominance, this would have been fertile grounds for trans women to dominate. There were plenty of opportunities. In a typical track meet there are 1 events, 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5,000m, 10,000m, marathon, hammer throw, discuss, shot put, long jump, triple jump, high jump, pole vault. So, for every track meet there are 14 events or 15 times in that meet for a trans woman to dominate other females.
So, any so-called intelligent person here can guess how many of these events over the course of those years were dominated by trans women, since they are supposed to have been so superior. If you participate in these events one can become millionaires, esp. with the Olympics.
Remember they were authorized to compete from 2004 until 2022. That’s 14 events times Olympic games, so 70 opportunities, 8 world championships, that’s 8 times 14 so 112 more opportunities, and there are 10-15 Diamond League Track Meets over the course of that time and not all of the field events are involved in every Diamond League or the 10,000m, so let’s just go with the running events 6 events times 15 meets times 18 years, so over a 1,000 opportunities.
And then there are road races over the 18 year period that was open for trans women to compete in all the big money marathons, ½ marathons, 10k’s and 5k’s etc. , over those 18 years, so that is an untold number of opportunities, but let’s conservatively say 200 race opportunities for superior trans women to beat up on other women and win big money.
In total a quick count gives trans women in track or running sports over 5,000 opportunities to win gold, silver or bronze, and the money that goes with it and dominating women’s running.
And I haven’t included domestic track events like USA Track and Field Championships or Championships held in other countries, and other championships. Now the question of so-called dominance, in all of the events where the top three receive not only a lot of money, but also gold, silver or bronze medals, that’s a minimum of 5,000 opportunities competing against other females how many medals did transgender women receive from 2004 until 2022 when they were legally able to compete in these events.
You give up, ZERO!
No transgender woman has ever placed in any professional track and field or road race event, ever!
How can this be when all of you say trans women would dominate but when given the opportunity on the professional level where not only could they dominate but win money, make a living why didn’t that happen?
Have trans women even competed? A trans woman was good enough to compete in the 2020 marathon Olympic trials. Her name was Megan Youngren. Now again the claims that trans women would dominate. IN the Olympic Trials only the top 3 make it to the Olympics. Did Megan make it to the Olympics or was she even close. Nope of course not, she finished near the back in 160th place and nowhere close to making an Olympic team.
And its funny, but not one right winger complained about Megan Youngren, and until now you never even heard her name. IN the history of the Olympic Games and remember trans people were able to compete from 2004 until 2022 but in all that time, only one trans person even made it to the Olympics. She was from New Zealand and her name was Laurel Hubbard In 2020, Hubbard became the first openly transgender woman to compete in the Olympics in weightlifting, although they were allowed to compete since 2004, no one made it.
Now according to the experts maybe trans people are lousy runners, that could answer the questions as to why in that 18 year period none of them won anything or even placed, but in weightlifting they should be able to dominate,
RIGHT.
So how did Laurel Hubbard do in the 2020 Olympics. She no-lifted. That means she could not even lift the opening weight. She sucked and could not beat any of the women .
There has not been one world class transgender runner on plant earth who could even compete with natal women, it has just never happened not in running sports at the professional level and I reiterate, they were authorized from 2004 until 2022 when Seb Coe banned them.
Which is funny because he literally banned something that never existed at the professional level and that being a world class transgender female runner.
So, I asked where did all the uproar and hate and hysteria originate and why have trans women not been dominating over a course of 18 years. That is a nice snapshot in time.
Well, there is one name, a swimmer who won some NCAA college swimming meets and the hatred of her. She became the face of the opposition, and she has been used to demonize all transgender people even though she competed by the rules.
Transgender women on hormone replacement therapy and not just androgen blockers, but estrogen and progesterone have no advantage, and if they did, they would have been piling up medals and money during those years from 2004 until 2022 and they didn’t win a damn thing.
This hatred of trans people makes no more sense than the Nazi’s hate of Jews or White people’s hatred of black people for most of this country’s history or the hatred of gays. Transgender people a very tiny part of the population are just the latest in a long history of America and its intolerance.
It is easy to hate in the absence of research. White people use to say black people were no better than apes and had tails, in Germany it was Jews who was making life worse for everyone or that is what that dictator claimed.
The next step or final solution for trans people is genocide!
No one is better than the right wing of America at sowing hate taking an insignificant issue, blowing it up and winning with it. That is right out of Mein Kampf, and it worked very well in 1933 Germany.
As for democrats, there are no more of a spineless human beings than 99% of democrat politicians. They are cowards to the core and its very hard to beat themselves out of a wet paper bag.
When the leader of 1933 Germany won, many in corporate America stood by him and people of good will hid, the same things democrats are doing now!
The total elimination of trans people in this country is the final step they will try, and democrats will do nothing!
They say there are almost a million trans people in the United States, well that many were eliminated in just 90 days in Rwanda!
But the people of this site and those in power in Washington will continue to stoke the seeds of fear, its trans people making your bill increase, its trans people as to why you lost your job, its trans people making the cost of food, gas and electricity increase, it’s trans people this, its trans people that………………………..
Until there are no more trans people and your life will improve.
We’ve seen this logic in history before and as they say history repeats itself!
A transwoman is not female. You can write 75 books with all the spin you want. Nothing will change that.
There are more measles cases in TX than trans athletes in the entire NCAA...and yet, the trans hate continues as I guess many people on LR are really unsure of their own gender status...
What if your daughter is a 9:45 3200m runner? Will she have to flush a scholarship down the drain and let you control her life?
You asked....
No kid of mine needs a schorship we have $$, and......if she is living at home yep we are in control.
Once on her own she is in control.
Ahhh, one of those. With that parenting model you won't need to worry about college, she will hate you by the age of 16, start dating a black "rapper" that goes by the name of "TA TA" which he says stands for tap that ass and she will have a joint Only Fans account where he raps and taps for tips.
Oh my god, why are Democrats OBSESSED with this issue? There are more important things to focus on!
Why is the forum so obsessed with this issue?
Men in women's sport is a big enough deal. It shouldn't happen. It's pathetic and it's cheating. ...people are allowed to try to enjoy their lives and for many, the enjoyment comes from watching or participating in sport. - plus it's healthy...unless you are injured somehow
. Please stop complaining now. I say what is really happening is they are looking for a "Final Solution”, of the transgender problem. That starts with the demonizing of a small minority, making them the cause of everyone’s problems, then systematically eliminating them from existence.
The sports issue is a non-issue and anyone with a quarter of a brain would understand that this is 100% about bigotry and fear of the other and intolerance, always the seeds throughout history for genocide!….
They say there are almost a million trans people in the United States, well that many were eliminated in just 90 days in Rwanda!
But the people of this site and those in power in Washington will continue to stoke the seeds of fear…
Until there are no more trans people and your life will improve.
We’ve seen this logic in history before and as they say history repeats itself!
Holy s*** balls, you are bats*** cray cray. Please keep this up, it will ensure democrats never again win an election for at least a few decades. Geezus, I honestly find it hard to believe people who think like this are real… but yea, they are. Wow. Insane, beyond insane.
. Please stop complaining now. I say what is really happening is they are looking for a "Final Solution”, of the transgender problem. That starts with the demonizing of a small minority, making them the cause of everyone’s problems, then systematically eliminating them from existence.
The sports issue is a non-issue and anyone with a quarter of a brain would understand that this is 100% about bigotry and fear of the other and intolerance, always the seeds throughout history for genocide!….
They say there are almost a million trans people in the United States, well that many were eliminated in just 90 days in Rwanda!
But the people of this site and those in power in Washington will continue to stoke the seeds of fear…
Until there are no more trans people and your life will improve.
We’ve seen this logic in history before and as they say history repeats itself!
Holy s*** balls, you are bats*** cray cray. Please keep this up, it will ensure democrats never again win an election for at least a few decades. Geezus, I honestly find it hard to believe people who think like this are real… but yea, they are. Wow. Insane, beyond insane.
You really base your vote on this issue? I guess that’s why democracy is called the lesser of two evils.
The Dems also spent a lot of time getting the USA out of a grossly mismanaged pandemic, and rebuilding the economy that became the envy of the world.
The bill isn't thought through, and seems to be more for political benefit than anything else. How do you enforce this bill purportedly designed to protect women? Will cisgender women be routinely asked to drop their drawers for detailed inspection, as the price of admission? In Florida, a similar bill was passed, and this paved the way for cisgender girls to become victims of allegations of being male, from other parents during matches, and the associated vitriol, simply because of the way the girls looked.
There are problems to be addressed, but I can't help but think the real motive here is to justify hating a group of people that the far right cannot understand.
If Republicans really cared about women, many more Americans are asking to restore nationwide basic health care, than are asking for permission to hate LBGTQ+ persons.
Abortion isn’t a right. And can’t men get pregnant anyway? 🫃
Please spell out exactly why and how a law predicated on the scientific proposition that people with DSDs all have a sex just like everyone else of our species does - and the sex of people with DSDs like everyone else’s sex can be ascertained based on their reproductive biology and genetics at birth - amounts to denying that people with DSDs exist.
Coz I honestly don’t get it.
"My government documents currently reflect my female gender identity, but under this executive order, I could presumably be forcibly categorized as 'male'."
So the government is telling this person who has lived her entire life as a female that she is actually a man. They are also telling her daughters that their "mother" is actually their father because she is a man. They are also telling her husband that he is in a same-sex marriage with another man.
Or the government is telling that she simply does not exist in the eyes of the federal government.
How is this not inhumane and cruel?
If she has some tiny intersex condition - she still gave birth. So she’s a woman
"My government documents currently reflect my female gender identity, but under this executive order, I could presumably be forcibly categorized as 'male'."
So the government is telling this person who has lived her entire life as a female that she is actually a man. They are also telling her daughters that their "mother" is actually their father because she is a man. They are also telling her husband that he is in a same-sex marriage with another man.
Or the government is telling that she simply does not exist in the eyes of the federal government.
How is this not inhumane and cruel?
If she has some tiny intersex condition - she still gave birth. So she’s a woman
Please stop with the BS. It’s a matter of public record that Kimberly Zieselman’s two children were adopted from China.
Zieselman has been very open about having some form of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome or AIS, an umbrella term for a family of male-only DSDs.
During prenatal development, embryos with AIS grow a pair of fuly-formed, normally functioning testes that produce testosterone in the massive amounts typical for males - or in massive amounts greater than the top end of the range that's normal for males. But because fetuses with AIS have a faulty androgen receptor gene, their cells cannot respond to the massive amounts of testosterone their testes pump as the cells of males typically do.
The testes of males with AIS produce anti-Mullerian hormone at the usual times in fetal development for males, and in the normal amounts for males too. As a result, their Müllerian ducts - the primordial organs that eventually become the uterus and Fallopian tubes in females - regress and disappear early on during prenatal development.
Persons with AIS may be born with external genitals that look female or ambiguous. But they do not have any of the female internal reproductive organs that would enable them to ovulate, get pregnant and give birth. They can't get pregnant either the natural way with their own egg, or through IVF using a donor egg.
From Cleveland Clinic:
AIS affects male fetuses as they develop in the uterus, as well as sexual development during puberty. AIS prevents male genitals from developing as they should. It almost always results in infertility during adulthood.
Who gets androgen insensitivity syndrome? Males who inherit an abnormal gene, called the androgen receptor (AR) gene, from their mothers have a 1 in 4 chance of developing AIS. Females can also inherit and carry the gene [from their mothers], but they won’t develop AIS.
How common is androgen insensitivity syndrome? Androgen insensitivity syndrome is rare. About 1 in 99,000 male infants are born with partial androgen insensitivity syndrome and 2 to 5 per 100,000 males are born with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome.
AIS was previously called testicular feminization syndrome.
There are three types of AIS: • Mild androgen insensitivity syndrome (MAIS): A person’s genitals appear male, but they’re usually infertile. Some experts consider MAIS a type of PAIS.
• Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (PAIS): A person’s external genitals may appear partially (not fully) developed male or female or may not be clearly one or the other. People with PAIS are often raised as boys, but not always.
• Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS): A person’s external genital appears female. But they don’t have female sex organs (no ovaries, fallopian tubes or uterus). People with CAIS are often raised as girls.
There's nothing shameful about having AIS or any other DSD. But unfortunately many people with AIS and other DSDs grow up feeling a great deal of shame about their conditions. A main reason for this is that during their formative years, their parents and doctors treated their DSDs as shameful secrets and told them a bunch of lies about the nature of their DSDs and also lied to them about their sex.
Unfortunately, even when people with male DSDs like AIS and XY 5-ARD are full-grown adults who know the truth about their DSDs and their sex - and they feel comfortable and fully at home in their bodies, and they take pride in how they developed - many people with male DSDs like Zieselman and Caster Semenya continue to lie about their sex.
This post was edited 17 minutes after it was posted.
I have seen people argue that transgender women have no real competitive advantage over biological females. Please explain then why we are NEVER seeing any news that a transgender male has stolen first place in a biological male sporting event. Not once. No transgender men are "Man of the Year". It's only one way - trans women stealing the accolades of biological females. Every single time.
Women are overpowered and assaulted/killed every year while running by men. I have never once heard of a man being assaulted or killed by a woman while out on his run. Not once. The idea that a biological male has no physical advantage over a biological female is so preposterous that anyone trying argue this has no further credibility with me on anything again.
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